MachServTech
New Member
you do know there is a NHB version of this thread? please go there to post your "opinion".
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Solar Powered Sign Shop - One year later
- Thread starter SqueeGee
- Start date
you do know there is a NHB version of this thread? please go there to post your "opinion".
MachServTech
New Member
Squeegee, have you looked into how much a battery bank would cost for your setup? (helps in case of hurricane type month long grid outages)
It's hard to say. I've not yet invested in the equipment necessary to record output in real time. Right now, I have to go to the inverter to get the data and even then I can only see current output and overall output. I track the total output each month so I CAN tell you that my wintertime production is way lower than summer. Obviously some of that can be attributed to snow cover, but also to shorter days.
Below is my output. Most are monthly but the beginning and end have partial months.
Reading Date Electric Generated by Panels
5/20/2010 0
6/1/2010 739
7/1/2010 2214
8/1/2010 2216
9/1/2010 2439
10/1/2010 1665
11/1/2010 1216
12/1/2010 805
1/3/2011 531
2/4/2011 629
3/1/2011 690
4/1/2011 1116
5/3/2011 1594
5/20/2011 977
I didn't investigate it because "grid tie" was available to us and we don't traditionally have power outages in our area(I'm in Central Virginia). Not to say it wouldn't be beneficial but we just weren't in the position to spend anymore than we absolutely had to.
kgirl
New Member
it's no "opinion"....it's "fact"....you go post there....
MachServTech
New Member
I did.... have a nice day.
Why would you get a system without getting Enphase http://enphase.com/ microinverters much more efficient than standard inverters and adds only a small cost to the overall system..
A - You didn't do your homework
B - You are a hypocrite
A - You didn't do your homework
B - You are a hypocrite
mark galoob
New Member
are you a butt head if you
1. post like this
2. post like this
answer ... yup
mark galoob
1. post like this
2. post like this
answer ... yup
mark galoob
mark galoob
New Member
i guess that makes me a butt head too...lol:ROFLMAO:
mark galoob
mark galoob
C - I used thin film panels. As a solar expert, I'm sure you're aware that these panels can only be put in strings of 4(sometimes 5 depending on climate) before having to be run back to the inverter or in my case, the combiner box and then the inverter. For the non solar experts out there, that means they don't play well with microconverters.
I believe our inverters have a CEC weighted efficiency of between 95% and 96% so when you say "much more efficient", how MUCH more?
With an Enphase every panel gets an inverter on the roof and the output is combined there for a higher wattage less loss to final point -- but i am sure you new that.. (NOT!) The cool thing is each panel can be tracked separately as well as by the group.
Dude, do you need a hug? Somebody give Rob a hug, he's feeling a little cranky.
So let's talk more about why microinverters rock but just didn't fit for my project.
With mono-crystalline panels, the output is typically pretty high per panel. Maybe 180 watts plus. You string them bad boys together - 8, 10, 12 - however many the "conventional" inverter will allow and send the power to it so it can convert that sun juice from DC to AC. Now a pesky leaf lands on one of your panels. No big deal, right? I mean it's just one leaf on one panel. Actually, it's kind of a big deal because whichever panel is outputting the least power is what the others will be allowed to output. So instead of one leaf, it's really like 8 or 10 or 12(depending on how many panels you have in a string) leaves. The same goes for shadows, bird poop, you name it.
Now why in the world would I dare not to use this amazing new product?
Let's start with maintenance/reliability/convenience. The way I installed my panels, it's kind of a pain in the ass to access them. Instead of a quantity of two(2) phase converters mounted in the cozy safety of the inside of our shop like what I went with, I would have had TWO HUNDRED TWENTY (220) phase converters mounted outdoors(in a pain in the ass location). Advantage - conventional inverters.
Now, cost. I bought two phase converters for a total of $7,500. A quick google search tells me that micro inverters are roughly $175 each. Times 220 that's $38,500. (Advantage - conventional inverters.) Whoa! What? $38,500? That makes no sense! Why so much? Which brings me to my final point.
Thin film panels. I bought 220, 60 watt thin film panels. The $175 micro inverters I listed above are designed for 185 watts of input. Well couldn't you just run 3, 60 watt panels together you ask? Maybe with some extra adapters and such. But then that defeats the whole purpose of having a microinverter to start with(remember the leaf scenario above)? Besides, I can only string 4 of these panels together ANYWAY before they have to go back to the inverter because that's one of the characteristics of thin film panels. They run "hotter" and have to be in smaller strings. Advantage - conventional inverters.
If you "new" me, you'd know how funny it was when I read that I hadn't done the research. My wife would argue that I need a spreadsheet to decide on what to have for lunch.
As far as being a hypocrite, well, I'm not sure where that came from. I've been very upfront with the fact that I would NOT have done this project if it didn't make good business sense. Don't get me wrong, I like the benefits of renewable energy. But feeding my kids comes in a little higher on the list.
So to recap:
A) Microinverters - worth consideration with mono crystalline panels
B) My kids gotta eat
I hope you get your hug, Rob-o!
Dude, do you need a hug? Somebody give Rob a hug, he's feeling a little cranky.
So let's talk more about why microinverters rock but just didn't fit for my project.
With mono-crystalline panels, the output is typically pretty high per panel. Maybe 180 watts plus. You string them bad boys together - 8, 10, 12 - however many the "conventional" inverter will allow and send the power to it so it can convert that sun juice from DC to AC. Now a pesky leaf lands on one of your panels. No big deal, right? I mean it's just one leaf on one panel. Actually, it's kind of a big deal because whichever panel is outputting the least power is what the others will be allowed to output. So instead of one leaf, it's really like 8 or 10 or 12(depending on how many panels you have in a string) leaves. The same goes for shadows, bird poop, you name it.
Now why in the world would I dare not to use this amazing new product?
Let's start with maintenance/reliability/convenience. The way I installed my panels, it's kind of a pain in the ass to access them. Instead of a quantity of two(2) phase converters mounted in the cozy safety of the inside of our shop like what I went with, I would have had TWO HUNDRED TWENTY (220) phase converters mounted outdoors(in a pain in the ass location). Advantage - conventional inverters.
Now, cost. I bought two phase converters for a total of $7,500. A quick google search tells me that micro inverters are roughly $175 each. Times 220 that's $38,500. (Advantage - conventional inverters.) Whoa! What? $38,500? That makes no sense! Why so much? Which brings me to my final point.
Thin film panels. I bought 220, 60 watt thin film panels. The $175 micro inverters I listed above are designed for 185 watts of input. Well couldn't you just run 3, 60 watt panels together you ask? Maybe with some extra adapters and such. But then that defeats the whole purpose of having a microinverter to start with(remember the leaf scenario above)? Besides, I can only string 4 of these panels together ANYWAY before they have to go back to the inverter because that's one of the characteristics of thin film panels. They run "hotter" and have to be in smaller strings. Advantage - conventional inverters.
If you "new" me, you'd know how funny it was when I read that I hadn't done the research. My wife would argue that I need a spreadsheet to decide on what to have for lunch.
As far as being a hypocrite, well, I'm not sure where that came from. I've been very upfront with the fact that I would NOT have done this project if it didn't make good business sense. Don't get me wrong, I like the benefits of renewable energy. But feeding my kids comes in a little higher on the list.
So to recap:
A) Microinverters - worth consideration with mono crystalline panels
B) My kids gotta eat
I hope you get your hug, Rob-o!
The Enphase inverters will handle up to 260w per panel newest panels available (one per panel) they convert to AC on the roof independently of each other - so the problems with one panel wouldn't affect others.
With 220 panels -- (good luck keeping that at a decent output over the next few years producing only a max 10kw) For the same money 40K you could have gotten 52 sharp 224w panels, 52 inverters installed with hardware and internet monitoring.
Why use crappy thin cell technology? "Thin-film technologies reduce the amount of material required in creating a solar cell. Though this reduces material cost, it may also reduce energy conversion efficiency."
Choices ?? I guess the salesman gave you a kick back on the system-- a little extra money from the taxpayers to feed the kids -- it' all good!
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I'll be the first to admit that I'm no "genus" but I can do math and would at least run a spell check on any message questioning some one else's intelligence.
I had 13,200 watts of solar panels installed with inverters, combiner boxes, cables, racking, shipping, etc for 40k COMPLETE. That's $3 per watt.
I would be absolutely shocked(pun intended) if you could come within $10k of that.
By the way, it didn't matter if I would have spent 40k or 400k on our system, the rebate would been for the same amount as it was based on the output of the system not how much it cost.
Also, you're still not getting it regarding microinverters.
I had 13,200 watts of solar panels installed with inverters, combiner boxes, cables, racking, shipping, etc for 40k COMPLETE. That's $3 per watt.
I would be absolutely shocked(pun intended) if you could come within $10k of that.
By the way, it didn't matter if I would have spent 40k or 400k on our system, the rebate would been for the same amount as it was based on the output of the system not how much it cost.
Also, you're still not getting it regarding microinverters.
You didn't get the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Federal Tax Credit (30%)??
The one I can't get because I lost all my deductions-- did you loose all yours as well?
Gota love the tax code!!
[/FONT]
http://cgi.ebay.com/Solar-Panel-kit...279?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b2caee57
11.5 kw kit w/Enphase microinverters $32K