Solvent vs Eco Solvent Ink

[Gary Wiant]

I'm looking at a new printer right now to replace my JV3 using SS2 inks. I'm between the Epson GS6000 "eco" or the Mimaki JV33 " solvent" . I like the color gamut of the Epson but I'm concerned the prints won't last as long as the Solvent inks from my JV3 that I'm used to, but I'd also like to get away from the toxic / smell of the solvent ink. Someone with experience with both ink types please help me out.

A little about what we typically print, pretty much what everyone prints but here you go:
* long term outdoor signs
* commercial vehicle lettering
* Safety vehicles
* Decals & Lables
* Outdoor Banners
* Very little but some indoor posters & signs

We are getting more and more accounts that require closer color matching

 

[Molenbeek]

Gary-

As per the specs of the machines, the Epson has a 2+ years rating on unlaminated and the JV33 hsa a 3+. Now alot of this is all marketing hype as well but thats what is stated. Many of the large wrapping companies out there are using the Epson and with the 3M stuff- still out there stating a 3-5 year life. The Mimaki is included in the 3M and Oracal warranties as well.

Both are great machines-

 

[mark in tx]

With proper color profiling, the type of ink matters less.
I have been using solvent ink, and it is just plain more durable.
It really comes down to an economic decision for most people.

 

[Gary Wiant]

Thanks guys I can basically get a mimaki and Epson for the same money so I think I'm going to stay with the Mimaki because I know the machine is really well built and I have been using the JV3 for 3 years and no problems at all.
I know when I got the JV3 it was the main wrapping machine on the market and now a lot of companies are catching up. I really like the Latex but I think it still has some issues that need addressed. and time on the machine

Thanks
Gary

 

[Rooster]

If I'm not mistaken the 3 year rating on the JV33 is for the eco-sols. If you use the SS-21's the unlaminated rating jumps to 5 years. You should use an air-cleaner of some sort with the SS-21's though. I'm told they aren't "that" bad, but I can smell the eco-sols on long runs with heavy coverage so even a little worse would justify getting a scrubber.

You may even be able to get the HS-3 inks for the JV33 which is the same full solvent they run in the JV5 for increased durability.

The Epson has some great looking prints, but with a 2 year rating on the inks they've created a very small niche market. If I wanted an expanded color gamut, I'd look at the Canon and HP aqueous machines with their 12 color inksets. Indoor use only, but they put the GS6000 to shame when it comes to color gamut.

 

[Gary Wiant]

I ended up ordering a JV33 with SS21 inks, the decission all came down to ink durability. I'd rather miss a patone color by a little and be able to explain to the customer that " this is as close as I can match but it's gonna last 5 years+" rather then having them be happy with the inital job only to have them call and want a replacement print made, or notcome back at all.

Rooster - can you tell me where you saw the 5 year unlaminated claim on the SS21 I believe you I just would like to see the info

Thanks

 

[heyskull]

I used my friends JV3 and JV33 for a while and unlaminated prints wouldn't last any longer than 1 year if they were looked after! My Mutoh Valuejet prints last a whole lot longer than that you could probably get 3 years if looked after properly.
I guess anyone who has a solvent or ecosol printer would have a laminator anyway.
I would not guarantee any print of any large format printer for more than 6 months unlaminated.

SC

 

[iSign]

I used my friends JV3 and JV33 for a while and unlaminated prints wouldn't last any longer than 1 year if they were looked after! My Mutoh Valuejet prints last a whole lot longer than that you could probably get 3 years if looked after properly.
I guess anyone who has a solvent or ecosol printer would have a laminator anyway.
I would not guarantee any print of any large format printer for more than 6 months unlaminated.

SC

well, maybe your friends heaters were off, or the prints were on some foreign media... my UNLAMINATED JV3 prints show no sign of degradation AT ALL after 1 year... IN TROPICAL SUN!!

a mutoh is never going to outlast a full solvent Mimaki print... what a preposterous claim the likes of which I have never seen made anywhere... I mean everybody always like their own printer best... for whatever reasons they bought it for.... but I hope you didn't buy it just because "your friends" Mimaki prints didn't last.... you friends situation is NOT typical!

 

[heyskull]

Yes we all love our own printers and yes a full solvent printer should last way longer then an ecosol.
I used his machines when they were brand new so it should be no heater issues.
He was using original inks and printing onto 3M materials. So Inks and materials are not an issue.
We had issues with fading and scratch resistance on both Mimakis.
He now uses these machines for promotional printing for a local building society and these are changed every month or two so their are no issues on his part really.

SC

 

[Gary Wiant]

Yeah I agree with Island, if the Mimaki is printing SS2 inks they will last longer, I have banners that have been outside for 3 years with no fading. As for him having scratching issues that sounds like he is printing Eco Solvent inks, which are basically the same inks as the Mutoh, Roland, Epson etc. Your friends printer may have been new but something had to be set up incorrectly by the installing tech. The JV3's are not the greatest printer ever made and do have issues of there own but ink scratching off or fading issues are not one of them. If I was having issues like that I'd guarantee you I wouldn't have even looked at another Mimaki, but rather the longevity of the inks are why I opted for another Mimaki.

I personally didn't even look at the Mutoh for 2 reasons

1. I used to have a Gerber Jetster and that was a renamed Mutoh Falcon and I had lots of issues, may have just been my printer but burn me once...

2. This may sound dumb but My customers walk past my printer to get to my office and being I'm not the least expensive shop around I don't want them thinking ValueJet means cheaper cost or quality.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Rooster]

Rooster - can you tell me where you saw the 5 year unlaminated claim on the SS21 I believe you I just would like to see the info

The reason I prefaced the statement was because I only recall the info from somewhere. Getting an ink manufacturer to put longevity ratings in writing is a difficult task. I could be getting the SS21 confused with the HS series as well. Or possibly even what the laminated rating would be. It would be best to try and get an answer from Mimaki as my information is second hand and from memory so don't take it as gospel. I could very well be wrong or parroting some sales guy's BS line from memory.

You can try digging through the http://www.wilhelm-research.com/ site, but from my cursory glance it would appear they have only tested the Epson GS solvents and only on canvas for indoor use. Tons of info on aqueous inks though.

Like any ink rating, They're all done with accelerated testing and is entirely dependent on location, positioning and environment where the sign is placed. So no matter what they say your mileage may vary.

 

[Rooster]

I asked my local dealer about the difference today. They were pretty quick to avoid giving a straight answer, but said that you can usually expect an extra year out of each step up in ink for a similar application. So if you're getting 3 years from eco's you should expect 4 from SS21's and 5 from the HS series.