Some advise needed

[signsny]

Hello everyone.

I just bought a Mimaki JV-33 160.I need some help with picking up the right material for printing.Here are my questions.

We need vinyl for outdoor printing 3 plus years like images on coroplast,
Small images on construction vans, Printed pictures on glass, Images printed on vinyl and apply on the awnings.

Also banner material for outdoor purpose.

Vehicle wrap material for 1-2 year outdoor.

Please give some advise to us for our new solvent printer.

Thanks
Jay

 

[Malkin]

Most calendared films go for about 3-5 years, most cast for 6-8.

Generally you will want to laminate the cast (with another cast lam)

Calendared vinyl will barely outlive the inks, so laminate is more optional

Compound curves and rivets on vehicles demand cast vinyl

By the way, distributors LOVE to send information and catalogs.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

For calendered vinyl for temporary (up to 3 years), try General Formulations 203, it's sold by fellers as their Concept 203 or Grimco as their Briteline 3203. It's very inexpensive, prints great (use an unmodified profile for Orajet 3651), and holds up great. They also make a matte version of it called 201, which is nice for indoor signs to help reduce glare, as well as low-tack removable adhesive versions in gloss or matte. We started using this about 3 years ago and swear by it.

For something a little pricier, try Orajet 3165RA. It's still a short term temporary vinyl, but it has a gray blockout adhesive and air-egress adhesive. It's not an every day vinyl, but it's nice to have around when you need to cover something up or need the ease of installation the air egress gives you.

For a good longer-term vinyl for flat surfaces, check out Orajet 3551RA. Same gray blockout and air egress adhesive as the 3165 but it'll give you closer to 5 or more years with laminate. They say it can be used on mild compound curves but I don't trust it there.

For wraps, we love Orajet 3951RA. It's more aggressive than some other vinyls but once you get used to it it's very easy to work with and very forgiving.

When the job calls for laminate, we use Oracal 290 cast or 210 calendered.

For banner material, you can't go wrong with Ultraflexx Jetflex FL 13oz, we've tried many many banner materials and the Jetflex wins hands down. They also make a very nice 10oz version. If you need something heavier or double-sided, Fellers just released a 16oz double-sided blockout with a heavy scrim called Koma, it prints very nice. We also use a ton of Herculite Bantex 18oz double-sided, which is almost indestructable. Also prints awesome. We run all of our banners using an Avery 3100 glossy calendered profile modified for 4-pass bi-directional, heat at 42,40,50. That gives us dead-on color, very fast speeds, with no banding.

There are alot of other medias out there, some are good and some are bad. The best thing you can do isget sample rolls from vendors and experiment until you find the rught combination of profile, speed and print quality to suit your needs. What I've listed is works very well for us, but it wasn't without alot of trial and error. It may not work as well for you, and it can be frustrating searching for good media that delivers consistent sellable quality.

Good luck!

 

[Neil]

Lots of good info there from Insignia as usual!

Just a question about the Concept 203:
I've just bought a roll of this to try and I cut off a piece to play with/test out and noticed that the adhesive wasn't very tacky.
It feels like Avery EZRS - the slidable adhesive.

Anyway I stuck it down to another piece of vinyl and came back the next day to test the adhesion.
As I pulled it up half of the adhesive separated from the back of the vinyl. We tried wet and dry and onto different surfaces but it would always delaminate when removing.
Pity cause it prints well, but I wouldn't trust using this on most jobs.

Can you confirm if this happens with your batch?
I have the feeling this is a dodgy batch, perhaps they've used water based adhesive?

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Neil, I've never seen that. The first thing that comes to mind is to make sure it is 203 and not 204 which is a low-tack removable version. But if it really is 203, it sounds like something is wrong with it. It does use an acrylic adhesive, which is common to all economy grade and many medium and even some long-term vinyls from most manufacturers, so I wouldn't point to that as the definate cause of the problem.

I've honestly never tested it quite the way you are, but I've removed quite alot of it and never saw any adhesive/film delamination as you describe, which sounds like a manufacturing defect... interesting. In fact, I've always been extremely impressed with the durability of this stuff. We use it on alot of commercial real estate signs which we get back in the shop from time to time to strip and redo with new graphics. We actually got a sign in a week or so ago that had been out in the field for about 3 years (one of the first ones we did on it) and it looked like new, no signs of failure or coming close to the end of it's life.

It's an economy grade vinyl, so don't expect miracles from it, but it's at least as good as any other econ. film out there, if not better. I'd return the roll and ask for a replacement from a different lot to see if you still have the problem.

And for what it's worth, General Formulations is a huge company, I don't know the exact numbers, but they;re one of the largest vinyl converters/manufacturers out there. They make alot of films that are rebranded as either house brands or sold under other names. Grimco's Briteline and Fellers Concept are the two main ones. Fellers ShineRite intermediate and permacast cut vinyl are also GF films, both of which are quite good believe it or not.

 

[Neil]

Thanks Mike, I figured you would've noticed when removing the stuff.
I bought the 203 and a roll of their clear 102 for less than the price of a roll of 3551. The clear works well - we printed some large window graphics in reverse on it. Although the backing paper is thin and curls easily. I guess this is just meant to be used as a laminate.

As for the 203, I'll point it out to my supplier to let them know, and I'll just use it up on jobs that don't need removing (at least, not by me!).

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Yeah, the stuff is great for yard signs and event signs and other short term things you don't really have to worry about down the road. I still would be concerned about that adhesive, even though I don't think it will cause any problems just because of the vinyl's intended use, something's wrong with it. We've gone through a few hundred rolls of 203 in the last few years and have never experienced anything like that. bummer.

 

[signsny]

Thansk very much You all professional has sent me a very helpfull information.
I am in a good shape now.

God Bless All