Some clients...

[Gino]

No, don't imagine the Vector Doctor. This is about you. ... and your choices and your policies.

If $15 or $20 is a large portion of your income, then perhaps you might entertain the idea of raising your prices..... and to a more reasonable amount. Most shops are billing out anywhere from $150 on up an hour. That means you'd hafta do 10 jobs to their one an hour. Even if you did $90 an hour, that still almost $25 an hour. How does $15 a pop cover any overhead, insurances, unforeseen circumstances, slow times, jobs gone bad.... etc ?? If ya think small, you'll stay small. Get outta that box you created.

Granted, if you're living comfortably, then don't change a thing.

 

[neato]

I'm not even going to read this whole thread, I already know what the other posts are going to say, because this place is nothing if not consistent.

You shouldn't have to tell a customer that you do design work for that modifying existing files for them is going to cost them money. Anybody suggesting otherwise is, at best, woefully ignorant.

Yeah, I think I aired my complaint in the wrong place I don't provide and end product like most here, my business is design, so I think we just look at it a bit differently.

 

[neato]

No, don't imagine the Vector Doctor. This is about you. ... and your choices and your policies.

If $15 or $20 is a large portion of your income, then perhaps you might entertain the idea of raising your prices..... and to a more reasonable amount. Most shops are billing out anywhere from $150 on up an hour. That means you'd hafta do 10 jobs to their one an hour. Even if you did $90 an hour, that still almost $25 an hour. How does $15 a pop cover any overhead, insurances, unforeseen circumstances, slow times, jobs gone bad.... etc ?? If ya think small, you'll stay small. Get outta that box you created.

Granted, if you're living comfortably, then don't change a thing.

Mentioning the vector doctor was an example of a similar business.

I do understand raising prices, I did this year to $75 per hour, next year I'll raise them again.

You guys look at $15 or $20 as piddly, and by itself it is. But if you sat at your computer all day everyday getting an inbox full of revision requests, those 'piddly' number suddenly turns into an income. And when a client suddenly, after years of great service and a constant relationship and understanding of how I bill, decides that you don't deserve to make an income from what you do, I guess it just burns you a little.

I don't charge $15 to design a business card. I think it's a fair revision fee though.

 

[neato]

Maybe this will help. Here are my normal rates for non-sign company clients. Is there room to raise prices? Yes, I'll agree with that.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I don't charge $15 to design a business card. I think it's a fair revision fee though.

$15 is actually my min for doing revisions to digitized files that aren't QC edits (which if QC edits are brought to my intention within a week of the original sale are free).

However, I do mention that revision fee before work is done and I do get paid before files are sent.

 

[equippaint]

This "nickel and dime stuff" is a BIG portion of my income. So no. Imagine if the vector doctor just did the "nickel and dime stuff" for free?

Nowhere did I suggest cutting your income or doing anything for free. I said to raise your hourly rate enough so you dont have to line item or invoice everyone for every little thing from customers especially those that have already paid you for a design. Its annoying.
You act like designers are some unique type of trade and have to do this - youre not. Do you use an accountant? Theyre strictly time based. Mine does our quarterly reports and charges us for it. He doesnt tack on a mail fee when we cant stop by and pick them up.
Should mcdonalds charge you for ketchup packets? What if you sat down then walked back up to get some and got hit with a sorry sir, you didnt ask for ketchup when you ordered, that will be 25 cents for 5 packets. They make their money $1 at a time too so what makes you different?

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Nowhere did I suggest cutting your income or doing anything for free. I said to raise your hourly rate enough so you dont have to line item or invoice everyone for every little thing from customers especially those that have already paid you for a design. Its annoying.
You act like designers are some unique type of trade and have to do this - youre not. Do you use an accountant? Theyre strictly time based. Mine does our quarterly reports and charges us for it. He doesnt tack on a mail fee when we cant stop by and pick them up.
Should mcdonalds charge you for ketchup packets? What if you sat down then walked back up to get some and got hit with a sorry sir, you didnt ask for ketchup when you ordered, that will be 25 cents for 5 packets. They make their money $1 at a time too so what makes you different?

Whataburger charges like 50 cents for sauce packets and it beyond pisses me off...back when I used to eat there... Yea, let me run my credit card for that. $10 hamburger and can't even give a man a sauce packet.

 

[neato]

Nowhere did I suggest cutting your income or doing anything for free. I said to raise your hourly rate enough so you dont have to line item or invoice everyone for every little thing from customers especially those that have already paid you for a design. Its annoying.
You act like designers are some unique type of trade and have to do this - youre not. Do you use an accountant? Theyre strictly time based. Mine does our quarterly reports and charges us for it. He doesnt tack on a mail fee when we cant stop by and pick them up.
Should mcdonalds charge you for ketchup packets? What if you sat down then walked back up to get some and got hit with a sorry sir, you didnt ask for ketchup when you ordered, that will be 25 cents for 5 packets. They make their money $1 at a time too so what makes you different?

Ketchup packets? Pick up fee? That's really not a fair analogy.

So charging a revision fee is out of line when the customer comes to me years after a design was completed and wants a different form of said design?

In the equipment painting business, if a client came to you a year later and needed some touch up work, you'd do it for free?

To you guys making signs that value $XXX-$XXXXX $15 is piddly, I get it, you're insulted by that number. To me, $15-25 transactions are a BIG portion of my income. It's not piddly, it's not nickle and diming, it's what I do for a living.

 

[neato]

Whataburger charges like 50 cents for sauce packets and it beyond pisses me off...back when I used to eat there... Yea, let me run my credit card for that. $10 hamburger and can't even give a man a sauce packet.

If you're spending $10 on a hamburger, why are you complaining about .50? It's their business model and I think they're doing something right.

 

[Johnny Best]

From your first post and how you were going back and forth with the customer in a good mood and offering to send them files without a problem I can see where the customer thought that you were doing them a favor for free. I am not siding with the customer or Neato but I have been there before and have learned to be upfront with someone when you know it is going to be time consuming. Whenever you have a talent for a trade people will look for favors. They even have the commercial on TV about the friend wanting to know if they know a contractor and then asking them to do all the groundwork for them. $15 does not seem much to certain people but it is obvious Neato's customer thinks it is.
I may be woefully ignorant but I tell people up front when dealing with work.
And if you do not have an artistic talent you do not understand how people want things for free because they think it does not take you long do do, so it is no big deal to do it.

 

[neato]

From your first post and how you were going back and forth with the customer in a good mood and offering to send them files without a problem I can see where the customer thought that you were doing them a favor for free. I am not siding with the customer or Neato but I have been there before and have learned to be upfront with someone when you know it is going to be time consuming. Whenever you have a talent for a trade people will look for favors. They even have the commercial on TV about the friend wanting to know if they know a contractor and then asking them to do all the groundwork for them. $15 does not seem much to certain people but it is obvious Neato's customer thinks it is.
I may be woefully ignorant but I tell people up front when dealing with work.
And if you do not have an artistic talent you do not understand how people want things for free because they think it does not take you long do do, so it is no big deal to do it.

I agree. This shouldn't have been a shock to them though. They're a long time customer, at one time I did work daily for them, kept a running tab. I do that with MANY of my customers that I work with regularly, it's not uncommon with me or among designers to work that way.

I guess since it had been a while since I worked with them, I should have treated them like a new customer. I do get that point, and I'm going to be more conscious of that in the future.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

If you're spending $10 on a hamburger, why are you complaining about .50? It's their business model and I think they're doing something right.

I'm complaining because I'm spending $10. You think they are doing right, and I don't.

I never complained about your price being $15, I don't care what you charge..(although it seems low to me), I just voiced my opinion about you not being upfront about it.

 

[neato]

I'm complaining because I'm spending $10. You think they are doing right, and I don't.

I never complained about your price being $15, I don't care what you charge..(although it seems low to me), I just voiced my opinion about you not being upfront about it.

I do respect your opinion.

Sorry, I think I'm coming across as being much crankier in this thread than I really am

 

[equippaint]

Ketchup packets? Pick up fee? That's really not a fair analogy.

So charging a revision fee is out of line when the customer comes to me years after a design was completed and wants a different form of said design?

In the equipment painting business, if a client came to you a year later and needed some touch up work, you'd do it for free?

To you guys making signs that value $XXX-$XXXXX $15 is piddly, I get it, you're insulted by that number. To me, $15-25 transactions are a BIG portion of my income. It's not piddly, it's not nickle and diming, it's what I do for a living.

I get what youre saying and agree. Im just saying to consider burying these out of the ordinary request costs in an increased hourly rate so you can minimize these sorts of aggravations and not lose money. Its not as if everyday someone is calling to send files so it it wouldnt take much of an increase.

 

[neato]

I get what youre saying and agree. Im just saying to consider burying these out of the ordinary request costs in an increased hourly rate so you can minimize these sorts of aggravations and not lose money. Its not as if everyday someone is calling to send files so it it wouldnt take much of an increase.

Yeah, I totally understand that idea. But this case is a good example of the stuff I do. The client has me design a business card, which I charge my normal rate for. Then as they hire/fire employees, they come to me asking for a card for the new employees etc. So they only good way to handle that is to charge for every revision. I can't do that work for free.

I heard a quote the other day on a design site that was new to me: "Don't charge for time spent, charge for time lost". Life is precious, if I'm working for someone else or someone elses business, I bill. Otherwise, I'm going fishing.

 

[Billct2]

I get it Phil. You are in a different, though related, type of business and getting paid for your time is the only way you make an income. You're not making a profit from marking up materials or labor, it's strictly a time based income. What I can't believe is business bitched about a $15 fee.

 

[RPM]

When we design something for a customer, we will sell them the art and then send them an electronic copy and warn them to save it. Also letting them know we may not be saving the art produced as we would have an astronomical amount of files. So when they come back a year or more later, and ask for a file, we tell them up front that there will be a charge in order to look it up.

 

[neato]

I get it Phil. You are in a different, though related, type of business and getting paid for your time is the only way you make an income. You're not making a profit from marking up materials or labor, it's strictly a time based income. What I can't believe is business *****ed about a $15 fee.

I think that's why I let it bother me so much. It's not the money, if I was worried about that I'd be looking for another job. Probably what bugs me the most is the long relationship I've had with them, always friendly and cordial, and then to have them react that way to one little fee...I guess I'm just a bit thin skinned sometimes

 

[Johnny Best]

I'm complaining because I'm spending $10. You think they are doing right, and I don't.

I never complained about your price being $15, I don't care what you charge..(although it seems low to me), I just voiced my opinion about you not being upfront about it.

I think Neato's problem is, if you are using a hamburger joint for an analogy is the people who get the meal with a drink and keep on going back to the soda dispenser and keep on filling their cup up for free. In fact his customer is the guy who bought a meal a long time ago and saved the cup and came back in with his saved cup to fill it up without buying anything.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I do respect your opinion.

Sorry, I think I'm coming across as being much crankier in this thread than I really am

And I don't mean to either.... been taking Prednisone for a few weeks and it sucks.