Stick With Roland or Go HP Waterbase?

[Speedsterbeast]

So I'm going to be upgrading my printer next year. I'm torn; and I mean torn on what to get.
I have an SP300V and have been very happy with it, but I would like a 54"
I've been to two ISA shows and looked at the HPs, as well as the Rolands.
My shop is a one-man operation, but I am quite busy all year. -No real bottlenecks at the printer though.
The only real time eco-sol inks give me grief is when I mess up a laminate job or the contour cut is off. Either one doesn't happen too often but when it does it's always at the worst time. -You know- the 24hr cure time
I like the HP idea, but I have to say, they seem a little cheaply built compared to the Rolands. I don't have a tech nearby so repair options would be tough- bought my used Roland 3 years ago and never had to do anything other than clean it or put ink in it.
I also do not own a larger cutter, so if I went the HP route, I'd also need to invest in a Summa or Graphtec.
I don't really turn down business because of fabric printing limitations.
Wired my new shop with 2- 220V plugs just in case though.
I'd love to hear feedback on anyone who went HP from a print-cut and any advice they could offer me.

Hope I gave enough info.
Thanks for reading!

 

[GAC05]

I think the support level might be a bigger factor over solvent vs latex side of things.
I'm looking for a new printer and am about as far from support as someone can get.
The HPs sound brilliant when they are running but when something goes wrong it looks like it will take more than a backyard wide format monkey to get them back up.
Doug from Hawaii had the first or second generation HP latex and he has not had a very good experience. His support has to fly in from another island.
I think if you had an HP service center close by I'd go with the HP.
With you already knowing the ins and outs of the Roland & being far from help - I'd pick up the Roland.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Bly]

We had 2 Rolands and got a L25500 when they had a runout sale.
Then bought another which we still have.
They're great production machines but do have a shorter life than the solvent printers.
I learnt from owning HPs years ago it's not a great idea to rely on one as your only printer.
I think I'll get a 360 next month.
We still use the Soljet for certain jobs and I'm glad we have it.

 

[jtinker]

I'm a big roland fan so I'm gonna say go with the roland. Things been running for 2 years strong without almost ever turning off and havent had a problem yet. Not to mention the speed and quality of prints. Though I did visit the local signarama for some contract installs and I saw their HP latex and I was really impressed on how fast it was with the quality of prints it provided. Theres no real hard science other than personal experience on my side but Roland is quality and you wont waste any money on them for sure. With that said taking a glance at the Latex printers I wouldnt count them out as I previously would have.

Roland Final answer, Time tested, Signshop approved

 

[rjssigns]

Speesterbeast what about an SP540V? Not fast but they will pound out the work.(we've printed 21 hours straight then 17 the next day) Then keep your SP300V. Should be able to swap parts if the need arises.

We've had some issues with our through the years, but nothing horrible.
Biggest issue was when we got it delivered and set up. By the next morning it had barfed ink all over the floor. Leaking from the cartridge and head ends.

Last "big"(not really) thing was the rear Paper Interrupt sensor. A $20 part necessary to do enable encoder and linear calibrations.

I am presently working on getting the contour cutting whipped back into shape.(we'd regularly cut 10-11 feet, but not anymore) Stuff is worn and I am trying to figure the best way to get the nip pressure I want.

Bottom line is you're familiar with running/repairing what you have. You have ink in stock. Profiles are set, etc...

 

[tylercrum]

I'll throw my two cents in here. I have owned the l25500 for 4.5 years now, almost 5 years. We have had it go down three times in those 5 years. One was a major issue that took a couple months to fix. BUT, that was entirely the third party technicians fault and NOT hp's fault. I had let the warranty lapse and it was a small take-up reel issue, that the tech screwed up into a big "replace everything" issue. Having said that, I do all my own repairs now, about to replace the web wipe motor and the pads on the carriage once the motor shows up. I owned a mimaki before this, and the hp is a LOT easier to take apart and put back together, and you don't have to spend the next few weeks getting solvent ink off your hands. YES, there are some plastic parts on here. But I'm 5 years in and none of the issues I've had have been because of plastic parts. Again, just my two cents. Ask ProWraps his opinion, he's owned 3 of everything.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

I don't think I'd personally ever consider the HP Latex printers. I've read enough on here and hear enough from local dealers to make me keep them off my list for future purchases.

Just like any other piece of equipment the bad always resonates louder than the good, but I still can't ignore all the bad. Constant error messages, media issues caused by the high heat required to cure the ink, inconsistent quality with heads, etc etc.

I know there are lots of guys here running them that love them but the way it stands I wouldn't personally look into getting one.

That being said....I'm getting fed up with our Rolands. We have 2 "flagship" models (Soljet 3 & 4) and yet they still have tons of problems. On good days they plug away all day without any issues but on bad days (like yesterday) they make me want to look at other manufacturers. Ink starvation on a printer that is 6 months old is unacceptable in my opinion, and don't get me started on the take up reels on both of them. They "improved" media handling by adding a loading system on the back which in my opinion allows even more buckling which of course leads to head strikes. Instead of improving the real issue which is the take up unit (they are aware of this.... somewhere there is a thread about the issues and Roland acknowledging that their system is flawed) yet continue to use the same unit on their "flagship" models. They add speed and all these great features but ignore the fact that you CANNOT run anything close to a half roll on them.

Other than that my only other complaint is that the XR-640 (I would assume any model with white ink set up is the same) cleans a ridiculous amount of times throughout the day. It can clean all night and dump half a cart of ink if it wants but cleaning and "processing" when you're trying to pump out jobs is such a pain in the a$$. I realize that white ink requires much more work to keep it flowing but that's what the ink re-circulation is for. I have a waste ink bottle that is full already after just 6 months. I spoke to our dealer, tech, and Roland about it and they all said "it's just what it does". Nice feature to have when they charge $0.32 / cc.

Anyways, kind of rant more than a review, but the moral of the story is I don't know if I would buy another Roland. I'm seriously considering looking into Epson or even possibly Mimaki for our next roll to roll solvent printer. I may be more demanding than you are Cory but I know how important it is to have reliable equipment when you're a one man show and rely on that one unit to keep your customers happy. I spent 5 hours yesterday matching colors on our new printer because our old one couldn't print it without serious starvation bands. We will need to replace some parts on the older one to try to correct this issue but guess what - the brand new one does it too. Just things like that make you wonder if there aren't better printers out there. For $30k these printers shouldn't give you problems like this.

Don't mean to bash Roland or get too off-topic here, but just thought I would give you some feedback.

My only other suggestion would be to keep the 30". You'll be amazed how nice it is to have two printers running different media, it really helps with the workflow.

Good luck with the search.

Went from L25500 to L360. They took the heater out. No more heat problem for us.

 

[HulkSmash]

As someone who has operated

Rolands
Mimakis
HPs
Mutohs

Let me get you my thoughts on this. Rolands older machines are work horses. I'm not a huge fan of their newer models are i see many people have problems with them. With that said I feel like they're overpriced.. by alo.

Mimakis are also work horses. More to the lower end of printers. They will run, and run.. they're also the cheapest.

HP Latex 360 - Nothing beats it.. period. Speed, quality, and HP Tech support. I still have first generation latex machines, and we also have the newest one - the 360. There was some issues here and there.. but overall a huge work horse for us over the last 4 years.

Mutohs - i hate them.


Overall Though the latex machines may have some hick ups here and there.. they are Vastly more advanced then any other 60" roll to roll printer on the market. The good 100% outweighs the bad. Solvent is old tech. Latex will soon take over everything solvent. HP is just in front of the curve.

 

[Speedsterbeast]

A lot of great input so far. But I think I'm even more on the fence than I was before. The big shows are easy to get romantic about any printer while they're printing vibrant pictures of red F-1 cars and Flower Bouquets, but then I realize that there are 12 reps and techs running these machines at the shows. I guess I need to evaluate that if the cure time wasn't an issue, which printer would be the best for me.
Maybe I'll look for an older SP540V and as suggested keep my 300V for backup, cutting and parts.

 

[DougWestwood]

Hp l285000

Hey There,

The tales you hear about HP's plastic parts failing are true in my experience.
In 2012-13, I ran a 104" wide model, and the material handle, the one you use every time you set up the machine, was dependent on a cheap plastic part. It broke in the first week, the tech broke another trying to replace the first. HP ended up making the part from metal, and that solved the problem. Good service, as that took a couple of days, but still, would have been nice to NOT have the problem at all.

Further, the HP pinch rollers were leaving wavy tracks on the material.
It was a profiling issue, but took a long time to fix. Techs needed more training.

The machine runs HOT. You will need some kind of ventilation. Summer was a bummer.

That said, once these bugs were addressed, the machine was pretty dependable, pretty easy to maintain. Parts were easy, and $150 per print head beats the thousand$ for other models. Would I buy another? Yes, but I'd make it clear to sales that I am aware of these problems and would want top-flight service to work anything out after purchase.

Good Luck!
- Doug
Vancouver

 

[rjssigns]

I agree with Colorado regarding the new Rolands. Ain't what they used to be. Our old SP540V is a tank. IIRC the rig weighs well over 400 pounds. My wife could carry it's replacement. This is one case where weight translates into quality.
Save for a couple problems in the last 7 years it just keeps printing.

 

[Hzone15]

There is no comparison between the Latex 200 series and the Latex 300 series. The statements made in this thread are true and very believable from the positive to the negative comments. However the negative comments made generalizing latex seem to be only true towards the 200 series and not the 300 series.

 

[HulkSmash]

There is no comparison between the Latex 200 series and the Latex 300 series. The statements made in this thread are true and very believable from the positive to the negative comments. However the negative comments made generalizing latex seem to be only true towards the 200 series and not the 300 series.

absolutely. The latex 360 model is a whole new beast. You can't compare the old machines and their problems to this one.

 

[signpainter51]

Roland or latex

I have had a Roland 54 in solvent printer for going on 8 years. I have changed one head. I have changed the ribbon twice. I got upset at the service cost. My son downloaded the instructions on how to service them. We saved a ton of money on service calls. I have been waiting on this printer to go out so I can get a new model. This printer keeps on printing. I also want to find out if there is another brand that compares with this Roland.

 

[Gino]

If you really scrutinize the information here..... or anywhere for that matter, you'll find people basically either liking the decision they've made, the decisions to change one way or the other or the bitter stories of getting burnt. Most of what you read is what either a customer of such equipment has fallen in love with or been bitten in the butt. The sales people are basically gonna point you in the direction where they can make the most profit with the least headaches.

It's gonna eventually become a personal decision to take the road with the least bumps to match a set budget. Only you know what you're gonna use this printer for, so while one might excel in certain areas, the other one might do better in a few of the categories you're looking to do.

I don't have latex, but from what I've heard, they tend to need looking after, while the inkjet has their own peculiar quirks. I've read where certain colors aren't obtainable on the latex, yet I've never seen the proof first hand.

I would say your best bet would be to go to a distributor that sells either or machine and take various files with all kinds of pushing the envelope and see what it does. Then go to a distributor with the other machine and then do a comparison. Don't tell either or what your intentions are. Later, see what you like and then weigh out a printer/cutter in one machine vs. a separate printer and cutter taking up more real estate and perhaps more money. The bit about it's dead in the water for cutting while you're printing is just a myth. Proper planning will prevent that from happening.

Good luck...... ​

 

[Speedsterbeast]

Well said Gino.
I agree that a print-cut machine is fine and doesn't hold up production for my shop.
And sticking with the beast you know may be better than the beast you don't.
I'm also aware that mentality can leave you in the dust in a market like ours.
However, thanks to the advice here, I'm seriously considering buying a used older-generation 540V to match my 300V.
I know the machine, they are "tanks" and I could keep both for parts, learning, and backup.
And I can pick one up for around 10g's.
Something to think about anyway.

 

[Chimuka]

I am a one man shop as well. I went from a Mutoh 1304 to the Latex 310. In my case I robbed the take up reel from the 1304 and put it on the 310 so the 310 made sense for me . If you do not have a take up handy I would go with the 330 at least.. Just being able to laminate right away is worth the change. The ink does not attack the adhesive either so edge curling of full bleed contour cut parts are much better. It steamlines the work flow and I do not have prints laying around stinking up the shop either. I have owned this for about 4 months now and I am well pleased. It does not do sheet printing or loads scraps of vinyl so, for small jobs the Roland may still come in handy.