Need Help Street Banner Specs

[Alison Fenimore]

We have a lot of clients that order banners to go across the main street. The city says that they can only secure the banners from the top grommets. They cannot secure anything from the bottom of the banner, so they are constantly being blown up and over the main wire , getting wrapped around that wore, and in general, getting thrashed in the wind. Currently, we are using an 18oz vinyl with webbing. We are looking for any suggestions on what specs we should be using, as well as any vendor that you can suggest for this.

 

[flyplainsdrifta]

without securing the bottom of the banner i dont think theres really anything that can help that.

 

[Gino]

What size are these banners ?? Why can they NOT secure the bottom ??

I would think they wouldn't meet any kind of city code for safety by ignoring the fastening of the bottom of a sign being draped across a street. If they are only trying off the top two corners, whether they are on a cable of not..... if one corner would happen to let go, there goes 50% of your holding power. That would allow the banner to bunch up and possible come down on vehicles traveling under it or hit people.

Besides, a banner spanning a street should not be depending on grommets alone. There should be a taught cable running both top and bottom and spring clips fastened to it, again both top and bottom and 4 tie-offs to prevent movements side-to-side.

 

[Billct2]

Won't make much of a difference what you use till the town sets up the installation correctly. Here they have two steel cables top & bottom. The banner get zipped tied along top & bottom
then tied off from 4 corners with bungees. Banner spec is for all hems to be double stitched with grommets every 18" and corners to be re-enforced. And they do require wind slits, which I think are useless...

 

[bannertime]

We do 9oz mesh with nylon webbing and o-rings on the corners. Installed similar to Billct2, but we use quick links instead of tie wraps. Flags can be banners, but banners are not flags. Outdoor banners should be secured top and bottom. You can try to put a dowel in a bottom pocket, but that could make it dangerous depending on the height.

 

[Alison Fenimore]

What size are these banners ?? Why can they NOT secure the bottom ??

I would think they wouldn't meet any kind of city code for safety by ignoring the fastening of the bottom of a sign being draped across a street. If they are only trying off the top two corners, whether they are on a cable of not..... if one corner would happen to let go, there goes 50% of your holding power. That would allow the banner to bunch up and possible come down on vehicles traveling under it or hit people.

Besides, a banner spanning a street should not be depending on grommets alone. There should be a taught cable running both top and bottom and spring clips fastened to it, again both top and bottom and 4 tie-offs to prevent movements side-to-side.

Banners are 20-25' wide on average, and 3-4' high. They said something about NDOT restrictions as the reason they cannot secure the bottom, so they just secure the top along the grommets, which are every 2'.

 

[Alison Fenimore]

Won't make much of a difference what you use till the town sets up the installation correctly. Here they have two steel cables top & bottom. The banner get zipped tied along top & bottom
then tied off from 4 corners with bungees. Banner spec is for all hems to be double stitched with grommets every 18" and corners to be re-enforced. And they do require wind slits, which I think are useless...

That's what we thought about wind slits as well. The city actually returned a banner to us and refused to put it up unless it has wind slits. So we put in slits, and the banner came down with even MORE damage. It completely tore apart where some of the slits were...

 

[Alison Fenimore]

We do 9oz mesh with nylon webbing and o-rings on the corners. Installed similar to Billct2, but we use quick links instead of tie wraps. Flags can be banners, but banners are not flags. Outdoor banners should be secured top and bottom. You can try to put a dowel in a bottom pocket, but that could make it dangerous depending on the height.

Flag material is what we have been talking about here. Figured it was worth a try. We tried the dowel thing and the city said no. Where do you get your banner/flags from?

 

[Gino]

Well, unless I see it in B&W, I highly doubt any states' DOT is gonna put a code in like that. That makes it most unsafe. Most of the street banners we make are 28" to 32" tall by about 30 or so ft long. Longest one was about 40'. The banners are usually 19oz, double hemmed with nylon in the webbing and double if triple gussets in the corners. The cables are usually a foot higher and lower than the banner height itself, to insure tension. Therefore, a 4' banner in your case would need cables about 6' apart. Therein lies your problem. They probably don't have room on the telephone poles, without catching stacks from tractors. We had one, where the city hadda stretch the cable from one building to the other across an intersection.

You NEED that bottom cable. If it's not there, you're becoming liable should something go wrong, regardless of what they tell ya. Lawyers don't go for this..... he said, she said, they said crap. They throw it all into the pot and y'all end up paying.

 

[bannertime]

Flag material is what we have been talking about here. Figured it was worth a try. We tried the dowel thing and the city said no. Where do you get your banner/flags from?

18oz vinyl is not a flag material. Flags are lightweight and typically supported by the wind. 18oz vinyl is the opposite. We're talking about banners here. 18oz vinyl is a decent choice for OTS banners, especially since it's barely secured. If it's secured top/bottom you can just about whatever scrim vinyl you want. We prefer mesh so that people aren't trying to slice up the banners.

We make all this in house. Also, why is the city having to install the banners? I "glanced" through NDOT regs and did not see anything relating to temporary over the street banners. Sounds like they are screwing around. I'd call them up, tell them a customer doesn't believe you and that you'd like to show them the regulation to ease their mind.

 

[Alison Fenimore]

18oz vinyl is not a flag material. Flags are lightweight and typically supported by the wind. 18oz vinyl is the opposite. We're talking about banners here. 18oz vinyl is a decent choice for OTS banners, especially since it's barely secured. If it's secured top/bottom you can just about whatever scrim vinyl you want. We prefer mesh so that people aren't trying to slice up the banners.

We make all this in house. Also, why is the city having to install the banners? I "glanced" through NDOT regs and did not see anything relating to temporary over the street banners. Sounds like they are screwing around. I'd call them up, tell them a customer doesn't believe you and that you'd like to show them the regulation to ease their mind.

Yes, we have been doing the 18oz vinyl, but we have been TALKING about switching to the flag material for the next one to see if that makes any difference. Just trying to see what options are out there, and what others are doing. The city regulates/schedules the OTSBs, but I like the idea of asking them to clarify..

 

[kcollinsdesign]

Many municipalities will offer this type of banner, but they will control the specifications and installation. No permit will be required. This prevents people from wanting to put up similar banners on their own.

Most sensible installations use cable and are as Gino described. Wind slits are useless, but some municipalities require them (mesh would be better if single sided). Just do as they ask and collect your pay. If you veer off specification either they will not install it, or the liability may transfer to you.

 

[Alison Fenimore]

Well, unless I see it in B&W, I highly doubt any states' DOT is gonna put a code in like that. That makes it most unsafe. Most of the street banners we make are 28" to 32" tall by about 30 or so ft long. Longest one was about 40'. The banners are usually 19oz, double hemmed with nylon in the webbing and double if triple gussets in the corners. The cables are usually a foot higher and lower than the banner height itself, to insure tension. Therefore, a 4' banner in your case would need cables about 6' apart. Therein lies your problem. They probably don't have room on the telephone poles, without catching stacks from tractors. We had one, where the city hadda stretch the cable from one building to the other across an intersection.

You NEED that bottom cable. If it's not there, you're becoming liable should something go wrong, regardless of what they tell ya. Lawyers don't go for this..... he said, she said, they said crap. They throw it all into the pot and y'all end up paying.

Thanks, Gino. I appreciate the info!

 

[LarryB]

We only use Net banners for over the street. Using regular vinyl even 18oz can come down even with high wind. We have never had a failure with Net banners. Check out Dixie Flag.