Stripe issues new to printer

[4R Graphics]

Ok I have a JV3 160S I know the Lc Lm head is bad Lc is missing lots of places in test print. I have attached a pic of the test print and it shows CMYK only. Also in the pic are several shots of a print these prints are in different pass settings EVERYTHING is in 720X720. Im trying to figure out if the strioe issue is temp or media feed or what any help would be great. In the pic you will see where I printed in CMYK and CMYKLcLm when these prints were done the proper 4 or 6 color profiles were used. Also in the pic you will see where I printed a test strip right from the printers control panel these were done in 720 4 pass. The material is Oracal 3551 RA and the heaters were set to the profile preset which was 40 on the Pre and 45 on the Post. The shop was cold not sure exactlly but it was in the 60's. Please post any thing you think may help the shop is closed until Tuesday so I cant test it until then.

Thanks Signs 101 for being a life saver.

 

[MikePro]

nearly cut off in your picture, but just enough there to see that your Lm is showing mechanical misalignment.... yellow a bit too. might be a contributor to your issue. your cyan head doesn't look so bad... a few deflections won't kill ya.
try running it in single-pass mode... bidirectional is usually my cure for banding, but it looks horrible when you're out of alignment.

 

[Ghost Prophet]

I have a similar issue with Mutoh printer that I believe to be caused by clogged nozzles.

 

[4R Graphics]

Mike,
You are correct that Lm is misaligned thats why I cut it off and showed the prints in CMYK as well as CMYKLcLm (how can you tell there is a mechanical misalignment from the check pattern print. It would be nice to know how to tell so that I can look at the test pattern that we print everyday prior to starting any prints) EDIT:I went back and looked at the pic I posted and I think I see what you mean about the mechanical mis alignment correct me if I am wrong but you are refering to the fact that the yellow pattern has a slight space between it and cyan and that Lm is over lapping the yellow correct? I believe that yellow is straight but perhaps needs to shift to the left perhaps .5 to 1 dot width.
The yellow should be good as we performed an alignment on the printer just before these prints and we are having problems with the LC Lm head and I believe the Lm dampner is sucking air from the oring that fits on the head nipple. I did get it to start working correctly but it was after the alignment of CMYK. I will align LcLm on tuesday.

Also all of the prints are being printed in single pass standard speed.

High speed unidirectional is not really any different. Never tried Bidirectional just seemed that if Uni wont print right then Bi would be bad as well perhaps more so do to the head laying down the ink in the opposite order on the return (3 head 6 color machine)

Im just not sure what to do to get rid of this as it is making us print everything in 16 pass which is just to slow.

So you dont think its a media comp issue or a heat issue?

This is really bugging me I need to print in 4 pass.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks again for the help.

Ghost,
Do an alignment check you may find as we did that stuff is not as aligned as you think it is.

After we did the alignment its alot better we use to have dark and light stripes that were noticable in 16 pass unidirectional from 2 feet away now its what you see in the pic which the pics were taken from about 6-8 inches away from the media.

 

[Sideshow]

The problem I had that was identical was printing from Flexi.

While it works, for whatever reason Flexi ALWAYS banded, so, I only use it now for non print vinyl work

AND I found that it still happened if I saved the .eps or image with flexi...even if it was created elsewhere.

I dont know, it just seems like Flexi converted / saved the .eps of IMAGES badly ( I guess since its not necc an image editing software )

The fix for me, was to stop using flexi to print from or to create ANY .eps file that contained an image ( jpg pdf whatever) So I would strictly work in PS, IL, or corel, and add my cut lines in corel, and use the printers software to rip print and cut.

 

[4R Graphics]

I do have a copy of rasterlink that came with the printer the design was made in photoshop and saved as a tiff then opened in flexi just to print.

The only problem is I dont think there are very many profiles for rasterlink compared to flexi.

I sure hope its not a flexi issue I dont think that buying another rip will go over well.

Sideshow,
I assume you are a former Marine if so Semper Fi from a Marine Brother.

 

[4R Graphics]

Bump
Anyone have insight they would like to share really need to get this under control.

Will test any and all ideas on Tuesday when the shop is open.

 

[Sideshow]

I do have a copy of rasterlink that came with the printer the design was made in photoshop and saved as a tiff then opened in flexi just to print.

The only problem is I dont think there are very many profiles for rasterlink compared to flexi.

I sure hope its not a flexi issue I dont think that buying another rip will go over well.

Sideshow,
I assume you are a former Marine if so Semper Fi from a Marine Brother.

According to the new Commandant, there are no longer Former Marines..... were just Marines!! Semper Fi 6521/6174

Try creating the image in photoshop, then opening and converting the image in corel to an eps. then printing the eps with rasterlink?

Never having used rasterlink, I cant assist with that, I am limited to using only versaworks, and it reacts with anything flexi and printing the same way....horrible colors ....shoot my BLACK wil get green hues ( Ive tried everything from 100% ALL to 0% CY and 100% K, etc ) and had to redo projects again outside of flexxi. seems once I opened the file, and saved it, flexi messes with the eps coding to produce horrible results, even if opened and printed outside of it. So... like I stated above, I just gave up using flexi for anything other then vinyl cutting designs, and strictly used versaworks for anything requiring print.

Sorry I cant help more, its hard to brain storm through a computer

 

[4R Graphics]

I do not have any corel programs but I do have Adobe illustrator.

I am not sure it is a Flexi issue as if you look at the picture I posted the solid Cyan and solid Magentta bands are printed through the test print menu on the printer it self in fact the rip computer wasnt even on when I did those.

I believe it is a heat, media comp or possible data issue as the heads do have a few deflections but it shouldnt print this bad with the deflections I have.

 

[MikePro]

mechanical misalignment is easily noticeable by the test print.
The lines are supposed to be parallel with each other, but if where the colors overlap you can see the overlap grows as you look up/down... then you know you have a mechanical misalignment.

This means that you have to tweak the actual head itself by loosening the printhead screws in the carriage and use the screws on the front of the carriage to adjust the "twist" of the printhead either CW or CCW.
its a real pain, and took me FOREVER to get it right the first time.

p.s. don't just jump right in and work on this, however, if its your first time. its like taking the hard drive out of your computer.... you have to power down, discharge static, etc. there's lots more damage you can do when working on the electrical components of the printer.

 

[4R Graphics]

Mike,
Working on this printer is cake for me. I use to work on multi million dollar radar systems for the Marine Corps.

I did notice that the yellow has a gap betwen it and cyan so I will adjust that when I cal the LcLm head tuesday. I will also adjust the linearization of the ink I believe it is to heavy. Lets say we are printing in 4, 8, 16 pass you name the pass you use how dry should the print be? Could someone give me an idea how fast the print should dry to the touch so I can figure out the settings as I really dont know much about the printer and I think the ink is to heavy and perhaps the temps are to low as I have read some other posts and these seamed to be what people said to check.

 

[tbaker]

first thigns first. Drop your heat to 32-35 for both heaters.This isn't going to help the quality of the prints that much, but it will help some.

Are you running OEM inks?

Your magenta ink looks really squirrely, Try doing a long nozzle wash and see if it starts to come around ( the nozzle print)

Production mode for this printer is 8 pass bidiretional fast.

Prints should be dry to the touch ( if a bit tacky) by the time they hit the takeup reel.

 

[4R Graphics]

The heaters are at 40 pre and 45 print by default in the profile so i will try dropping them. Prints are dry by the time they get to the take up reel but black just looks like it is laying down pools of ink. I am using triangle bulk ink system full solvent inks. I will try 8 pass bi everything so far has been 4, 8, 16 all uni in fast and slow speed. as for the magenta looking squirrly are you reffering to the stripe that was printed or the nozzle check and it having deflections. We have tried nozzle washes and soakes and the deflections wont go away I believe they are from a prior crash where the media was grabbed and pulled and bunched up under the printhead a few months ago. but the prints with the lines as showen in the attachment have always been there even when the nozzles had no deflection if I remember correctly but the cal was bad until I got in there this week. The whole carriage was cocked so i adjusted that then adjusted head angles then did the X, Y cal then ran through and tweeked the fine settings it was off bad I did not do the LC,Lm head as we had print issues with a damper problem I will change damper tuesday and cal that head and double check the other heads cal.

really need to get rid of that magenta and cyan stripes in the prints that are darker and lighter thats what is killing me if we can get that then we are in business as the heat and media comp will always need tweaking do to enviromnet chnages.

Unless you guys think that the magenta and cyan stripes are from media comp and heat.

All help so far is appreciated and I hope I can get some more info to use on tuesday and try to get this thing right.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[tbaker]

Personally, I would say that the striping involved is caused by nozzle deflection. those jets that are out of line are significantly displaced. The only thing I know of that will fix that are nozzle washes, and possibly manually cleaning the bottom of the printhead ( which I would never recommend to an end user since you can scratch the printscreen, making it worse)

From looking at your samples there seems to be multiple issues going on here, and if I was to show up on site, I'd recommend changing dampers first off in both the magenta and cyan channels, after that I would check full calibrations, because from one of the prints that I see, the cyan to magenta calibrations seem "off" significantly, lastly, because of the number of defelcted nozzles, if you are exhibiting that much of a decrease in print quality, I'd recommend replacing print heads, starting with magenta ( which to my eye seems to be the basis of the problem) but additionally cyan, which is showing signs that it needs to go as well.

Just my 2 cents tho

 

[tbaker]

For the record, if you keep showing signs of degradation in print quality, go from bi to uni-directional, then fast to slow, finally decrease to 16 pass. 16 pass unidirectional slow is the slowest print mode, but it offers the best print quality for this particular printer.

 

[4R Graphics]

Tbaker,
Thanks for the input do you have any other info that may help.
If you like you could PM me about cleaning the actual screen I figure its already jacked if it makes it worse then replace the head if it fixes it well great.

Any and all info you could give would be great.

Tbaker you said the magenta to cyan cal is off please explain so that I may fix it on tuesday what exactly is off and do you see any other issues that you could let me know how to fix or cal so that I can get this thing as tweaked as possible considering the heads I have.

Also what happens if I use a 720X720 profile and I set it to 360X540 in flexi? I am thinking that perhaps I could get away with 360X540 but I have no profiles for it and all the factory profiles I can find from the manufacturers are 720X720.

thanks again

 

[Sideshow]

Have you thought about creating your own profiles.

While the generic ones work fine, I personally created new ones for each type of material I use, not just the "Generic Vinyl 1" type profiles that are stock.

took some experimenting, but after a couple weekends, I had profiles for whatever I was putting in, window wrap, vehicle wrap, matte banner, etc.

 

[4R Graphics]

Building my own profiles has crossed my mind however we do not have the proper tools to do it at the moment. So I am pretty much stuck with the factory profiles for now. I must say that from what I know and have been told we have never really had issues with the factory profiles but we also will not gaurantee color matching.

I am sure that building our own profiles will dramatically change our prints but I do not have the tools available nor the time really to do it.

I am sure I could get the boss to get me the time on the weekends but I still do not have the right tools.

Any ideas on how to get rid of the deflections I am all ears as I believe that is most of the problem but I could be wrong.

I am really not sure how a damper could cause these problems but what do I know. Anyone care to explain it?

 

[tbaker]

step 1. Turn off the printer.
step 2. remove the cover to the maintenance station on the left side of the platen.
step 3. Move the carriage assembly to the maintenance area on the left.
step 4. With a clean lint free rag with cleaning solution on it, wipe the print screens underneath, from back to front. Do not push ink side to side else you could push dried ink into the jets. Make sure the rag is not saturated with ink between wipes. Typically I will wipe the print screen one time, then move positions on the rag remoisten, and wipe until I get 2 parallel lines from the jets.

Put it all back together and move the carriage over the cap station.

As for the magenta to cyan calibrations, it looks like cyan is sitting too high, but it could have been the print that you did.

 

[4R Graphics]

Tbaker,
thank for the info I will take a look at the heads with a scope to see if I can see the dried ink then give them a soft wiping to try and get the deflections removed. I will double check the cal on the heads also as iknow Lc, Lm head is out.

Thanks everyone for the help hopefully I can get this fixed on Tuesday will post and let you know what the outcome is.