Stubborn Wall, Graphics Falling Off

[Squared2002]

So I have been in the print industry about 35 years and have not seen this before. We supplied some printed GF 229 Wallmark Canvas for a repeat customer and after they installed it the material started getting horizontal air bubbles increasing as the hours went on. We assumed since the wall had been recently painted prior to install that maybe it was a case of Low VOC Paint. We stripped the material off, coated the wall with Killz Primer, waited 5 days and tried installing again, this time adding some Roman Wallpaper Paste to our vinyl. First couple hours it looked great. Then after about 5 hours the horizontal air bubbles are back and again as time goes on they are getting larger and more of them. Where the vinyl is still on it seams like a very strong bond. We are left scratching our heads. I have never seen vinyl do this specially after using primer and adhesive paste? Anyone wanna take a stab at this? Installation site is inside a casino in Las Vegas, we have used this material several times before in other areas and never had a problem?

 

[Zendavor Signs]

Maybe the wall is not flat, like concave? I don’t think that material has as much flex to it as vinyl does. I would recommend a vinyl, like 3M 180.

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

Did you you an adhesion test before picking your product?

What type of paint was used. There are recommended paints from most manufacturers. May take a bit of digging to find. I just sat down last week with some Orafol reps and this was a topic that we discussed and laughed.

 

[FireSprint.com]

Sounds like some wall prep might help. https://firesprint.com/blog/index.p...e-vinyl-signs-stickers-and-decals-will-stick/

 

[Vassago]

It's going to sound like a crazy idea.. But what's behind the wall?

Some times there can be a pressure differential and as walls are generally porous, any thing affixed to such a wall will be pushed off.

Usually happens to plant rooms or external walls.

Rare..but can happen.

 

[jlgb]

1. We use a thermal Flir camera before we apply wall covering wallstickers/decals/cover etc. to spot issues, like water leakage in walls (this will give cold spots), etc.
2. Many paint nowadays, have water/dirt repelling characteristics. These paints are ever more common in the Netherlands. Making them act like low surface energy plastics.
3. The vinyl/covering can simply strip the paint from the walls, if the paint has poor adhesion with the wall.

2 & 3 are not very likely given you seem to have done your preb correct.

I would look for warm/cold spots. Or air coming through the wall.

It is always the same location on the wall, that gives issues?

 

[Rohit Prasad]

could be a combination of the wall not being 100% flat and material too thick. Try using a thinner vinyl like 3m180. It’s worked for us in situations like this.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

What does is the finish of the Killz primer?

I've never worked with wallpaper paste. Seems kind of like adding glue to the sticky side of duct tape. Is there a significant benefit to that?

 

[CXN]

I stopped using GF229 because I had the overlaps curling on me in some areas and it doesn't stick to well on semi textured walls, I'm using Arlon DPF4200 now and its the same canvas pattern, sticks better to the wall and in the overlaps plus its 50' longer for the same price. The liner also peels nicer. have you tried heat rolling those areas to see if it sticks better?

 

[TheAngryCanadian]

So I have been in the print industry about 35 years and have not seen this before. We supplied some printed GF 229 Wallmark Canvas for a repeat customer and after they installed it the material started getting horizontal air bubbles increasing as the hours went on. We assumed since the wall had been recently painted prior to install that maybe it was a case of Low VOC Paint. We stripped the material off, coated the wall with Killz Primer, waited 5 days and tried installing again, this time adding some Roman Wallpaper Paste to our vinyl. First couple hours it looked great. Then after about 5 hours the horizontal air bubbles are back and again as time goes on they are getting larger and more of them. Where the vinyl is still on it seams like a very strong bond. We are left scratching our heads. I have never seen vinyl do this specially after using primer and adhesive paste? Anyone wanna take a stab at this? Installation site is inside a casino in Las Vegas, we have used this material several times before in other areas and never had a problem?

Can you find out what paint they used. I had this happen at a church and nothing we did stuck. We finally ended up doing a die -sub fabric i
Stretched in a frame

 

[Ameriprint LLC]

If the wall was painted with "washable" paint you will never get vinyl to stick to it. I found this out on a huge letter job for a new gymnastic and dance school. I ended up having to put 2 coats of kill and 2 coats of a non washable paint before I could get the vinyl lettering and logos to stay put. Washable paint seems to have silicon in it to help keep dirt and graffiti from sticking to it.

 

[MarkSnelling]

There is a primer called Wall Size made by Shieldz, I believe. This has helped a few of my customers. It is a quick primer that dries very fast. It promotes adhesion. https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-2...daf19013fd53b639c7f9e61&qid=1724678613&sr=8-1

 

[Precision]

Wipe the wall down with a white cloth and 50/50 alcohol. Try 3m Ij180cv3 with 3m 8520 overlaminate. That's what I'd do anyway. Good luck.

 

[Owen Signcraft]

May not be exactly what the OP is after but the attached handout from 3M has been useful for resolving failing wall graphics for us.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Wipe the wall down with a white cloth and 50/50 alcohol. Try 3m Ij180cv3 with 3m 8520 overlaminate. That's what I'd do anyway. Good luck.

Exactly what I do ..never have a failure with that combo