Sublimation history

[JCGraphix]

Does anyone have any info on how sublimation came about? Like websites and what not? I've been trying to research this and can't really find anything helpful.

Also, i play softball. Our jerseys are "full sub dye" meaning the whole white shirt is sublimated. What i don't understand... do they sew the shirt together themselves or sublimated and heat it on with the whole shirt intact... collar, sleeves, front and back etc....


thanks.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Also, i play softball. Our jerseys are "full sub dye" meaning the whole white shirt is sublimated. What i don't understand... do they sew the shirt together themselves or sublimated and heat it on with the whole shirt intact... collar, sleeves, front and back etc....

There are 2 ways of doing that. The easiest and most often used is just to sublimate a shirt already put together. Which means that typically the underarms etc are missed during the sublimation process, but the majority of the shirt is taken care off.

If there aren't any gaps in the sublimation and it has been fully sublimated, then I would say it was done before the shirt was put together. Or someone removed the stitched and sewed it back together. Which is not something that I would have done. I've done that on some embroidery projects, but those were mostly aprons and all I had to til with was single running straight stitches.

 

[JCGraphix]

There are 2 ways of doing that. The easiest and most often used is just to sublimate a shirt already put together. Which means that typically the underarms etc are missed during the sublimation process, but the majority of the shirt is taken care off.

If there aren't any gaps in the sublimation and it has been fully sublimated, then I would say it was done before the shirt was put together. Or someone removed the stitched and sewed it back together. Which is not something that I would have done. I've done that on some embroidery projects, but those were mostly aprons and all I had to til with was single running straight stitches.

Okay... so heres the two different examples. I really wanna get into sublimating (down the road) and just trying to figure it all out. Softballs huge around here and i know from experience that, what we call "full sub dyes" go for 45-50ea and a minimum of 12 for first order. That seems like decent money. Along with other things...

But here is the first one, so seem down the side. So your saying it was most likely sewn together?


And the second, where the obvious underarm is missing, but yet the sleeves are fully down... i'm so lost. hence why i'm looking for more insight!


Offsite pics replaced. Please read our rules and instructions on photo posting.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Do you happen to know if the same place did both of them?

In my experience, the second picture is the more common picture to get. Now just because there is a seam doesn't mean that they stitched it back. The vapor apparel shirts that I use have a seem going down the side. Based on the first picture, that's just too good to have done it with the shirt all together unless they had a different setup that allowed them to do a full cover like that.

At least, I would have had to remove stitches and press it then sew it back up. I wouldn't trust it to get all the spots with how I'm doing it now. It's a lot of effort to do that. Almost better to just do the shirt from scratch at that point.

 

[Accelerated Graphics]

We do all over sublimation and both of those shirts are sublimated in pieces and then sewn together..
We've tried to cut the material cut and sew but its just nor financially feasible in the US...

My suggestion is just to find a supplier and buy them...

 

[WildWestDesigns]

We do all over sublimation and both of those shirts are sublimated in pieces and then sewn together..
We've tried to cut the material cut and sew but its just nor financially feasible in the US...

My suggestion is just to find a supplier and buy them...

That's what I was thinking. Taking something apart and putting it back together is pretty $$$ and depending on what it is, it can just be better to do it from scratch if the setup is there and how good at it you are.

 

[JCGraphix]

Do you happen to know if the same place did both of them?

In my experience, the second picture is the more common picture to get. Now just because there is a seam doesn't mean that they stitched it back. The vapor apparel shirts that I use have a seem going down the side. Based on the first picture, that's just too good to have done it with the shirt all together unless they had a different setup that allowed them to do a full cover like that.

At least, I would have had to remove stitches and press it then sew it back up. I wouldn't trust it to get all the spots with how I'm doing it now. It's a lot of effort to do that. Almost better to just do the shirt from scratch at that point.

Yes, they are both made by the same company, only due to our team having a contract with them.

We do all over sublimation and both of those shirts are sublimated in pieces and then sewn together..
We've tried to cut the material cut and sew but its just nor financially feasible in the US...

My suggestion is just to find a supplier and buy them...

As in supplier do you mean the company basically i got them from? They charge us 55-60 a jersey. If i were to create and send out my design could i be at about the same price? Cuz they all use their own company names and i know that the company we go through is not big at all. Name wise, yes, but building and employees, not big at all.

 

[mikey-Oh]

Name wise, yes, but building and employees, not big at all.

Does size/name matter?!
You're still in contract with them either way, right?!
*** whoop, whoop 1.4K posts!!

far as the history o' dye sub, here's the wiki...
though, i believe sublimation's one of those olde chemistry terms from before either of our great-grandfather's were borne

 

[JCGraphix]

Does size/name matter?!
You're still in contract with them either way, right?!
*** whoop, whoop 1.4K posts!!

far as the history o' dye sub, here's the wiki...
though, i believe sublimation's one of those olde chemistry terms from before either of our great-grandfather's were borne

Well its in between seasons, so nothing is in stone yet.
I'm just trying to figure out how the sublimation works... as in finding someone to print and sew and vice versa.

I'm just one of those nerds that once i find something interesting, i have to know everything about it!


Congrats on 1.4k!!!

 

[mikey-Oh]

I'm just one of those nerds that once i find something interesting, i have to know everything about it!
Congrats on 1.4k!!!

Well thanks JC!
From my experience, it all depends on your sublimation intent... did you know a 250ml bottle of ink costs about $250-300 each?!
That's six lines o' ink per printing a pop, plus you get to buy some epson printer and pray it doesn't clog on teh sawgrass inks
.
Heard/read some great things about cobra inks(3rd party) and their CIS...
anyone here care to confirm?

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Well thanks JC!
From my experience, it all depends on your sublimation intent... did you know a 250ml bottle of ink costs about $250-300 each?!
That's six lines o' ink per printing a pop, plus you get to buy some epson printer and pray it doesn't clog on teh sawgrass inks
.
Heard/read some great things about cobra inks(3rd party) and their CIS...
anyone here care confirm?

Epson is ok if it's always running for the small format stuff. Ricoh is a better printer for the smaller stuff. Then for the wide format you can convert some of the brands that y'all work with for wraps etc or you can go with Dye-Trans.

SawGrass works really well and has good consistency. You do have third party inks, some from Germany, but a little on the inconsistent side for me. They do cost quite a bit though, you do want to make sure you have a market for it and one that will be coming back.

 

[royster13]

www.teamcosportwear.com in ON does all over sublimation....Not sure about all their prices, but hockey jerseys run 45.00 x 16 min....I am sure there are similar supplier in the US...

 

[tcorn1965]

What we do

We do tons of the all over sublimation, we call them burnouts. The trick is to design your shirt in a way that the white under arms are not noticeable. We print with tacky paper on the Mutoh Go-Rio printer and press with the Geo Night Maxi-Press. These are very popular. I have enclosed an example. Hope this helps.


Terry

 

[JCGraphix]

Well thanks JC!
From my experience, it all depends on your sublimation intent... did you know a 250ml bottle of ink costs about $250-300 each?!
That's six lines o' ink per printing a pop, plus you get to buy some epson printer and pray it doesn't clog on teh sawgrass inks
.
Heard/read some great things about cobra inks(3rd party) and their CIS...
anyone here care to confirm?

Honestly, if i ever got into sublimating, i'd just wanna mostly focus on what us softball players call "sub dyes" meaning simple team logos on front of the vapor apparel shirts with already colored sides and what not. My team pays $44ea for those. We have so much crap thats sublimated, bat bags, jerseys, pants, clipboard, coozies, phiten arm sleeves, everything basically! ha Just don't see how they turn so much profit if they have to send it out.

 

[JCGraphix]

www.teamcosportwear.com in ON does all over sublimation....Not sure about all their prices, but hockey jerseys run 45.00 x 16 min....I am sure there are similar supplier in the US...

Well there is A LOT of suppliers out in the west, nothing here in Michigan, my team goes through a company out of Minnesota called Shirts N Logos. They do awesome work, but they charge $55 for setup fee, another $50 for art fee (even if you have your own designed) then $45-65 a jersey, and most teams in out rank of ball have 3 different sets of jerseys from jersey, pants, hats. So your looking at close to $400 a player. Which we don't pay due to our sponsors but thats what got me wanting to do this in Michigan.

Money isn't really a issue as much right now cuz there would be a couple guys going in on it together. We would like to open it right at our softball complex we own. But this is future talk, ya know! And it seems so hard to find out how to start a sublimation business on the internet. I've tried finding even seminars, classes, anything really and nothing.

 

[digitalwoodshop]

Money isn't really a issue as much right now cuz there would be a couple guys going in on it together. We would like to open it right at our softball complex we own. But this is future talk, ya know! And it seems so hard to find out how to start a sublimation business on the internet. I've tried finding even seminars, classes, anything really and nothing.

I have been doing Sublimation for 5 years. I learned by going to training classes at Trade Shows in Atlantic City, NJ through ARA.org. They are the Awards people... I did the trade shows for a few years while still working a regular Job fixing Play Stations at the time 10 years ago. Made me ready to start a one man shop business. As I said, I have been doing this for 5 years and this last year was the first year I made a profit... It takes time to find a market.... But it looks like you have that in the Facility you own. Remember all that Equipment is a 5 year Tax Deduction.... I made money but when you look at the Cost of Goods Sold with Depreaciation... You make out in the End...

I have 4 Epson R1800's for Sublimation that is OLD technology but was good 5 years ago. I store the 3 extra printers with Epson cleaning and shipping solvent cartridges so they are ready when I get a Hard Ink Plug... Sublimation Ink is Thicker hence it plugs easier... When you get a plug, it is better to pull all your Sublimation Ink and install regular Ink and do the cleaning cycles. It will save you some money. Speaking of Cleaning Cycles.... MY Epson R1800 has a big Sponge in the bottom of the machine that collects the Ink that is sucked out of the head while cleaning. It is stored on the bottom of the machine... To prevent "Office CARPET INK STAINS", they build a counter into the printer. After XXXX number of Cleanings the machine will STOP WORKING and flash some Lights that IF you are lucky will find a FIX for it... This happened to ME at the XMAS RUSH one year.... Hence Bidding on 3 Printers on eBay at the same time and WINNING ALL OF THEM.... The Engraving Etc. Forum was where I found the ANSWER and a Program to download to "RESET the COUNTER" The Reset for the Newer R1900 Printer is OUT... I wonder if any other printers have a program to RESET the Counter? ASK before you BUY.... DO they become a "BOAT ANCHOR" at 1999 cleanings... YouTube has videos on how to make a outside the printer tank to hold future ink cleaning ink to save your carpet.

And like said above... Sublimation is a Scientific Term..... My neighbor a Temple U Professor visiting told me Sublimation is going from a SOLID as in the INK to a VAPOR under the pressure of the Heat Press, and back to a Solid as you remove the heat and never being a LIQUID in the process.

The Paper has a Clay Coating to prevent the Ink from sinking into the paper and the Ink has a color but components of the ink are the actual sublimation chemical. At 420 degrees a plaque, coffee cup, mouse pad with a Poly coating will open it's pores and with the printed transfer paper being pressed hard against the item. The Solid Ink becomes a Vapor and Migrates into the Open Pores of the Poly. Remove the heat and the Pores slam shut holding in the ink in a SOLID form. Hence.... A Dishwasher Safe Coffee Cup....

Moisture.... Moisture is your Enemy... IF the Transfer has Humidity Moisture in it, at the moment the Sublimation Ink Flashes to a Vapor the Water from the Humidity will cause the ink to MOVE due to the STEAM PRESSURE. This will leave a WHITE or CLOUD LIKE un Printed area and Ink in the WRONG PLACES..... I DRY all my Transfers on my heat press for 30 seconds...

Some PRE HEAT Shirts to remove the MOISTURE... BUT BEFORE.... Run a TAPE Lint Roller Over the Shirt and remove the tips of the polyester threads... IF NOT... They show up on the Shirts as little BLUE SPECKS.... after printing....

Storage of Items that are already printed.... For some reason, Storing completed T Shirts in PLASTIC BAGS and subjecting them to the HEAT of say a RV in ARIZONA could result in all printed product to become SCRAP.... I only know this from the Training Classes... Beware HOW you store completed Product with PLASTIC BAGS.... A NO NO...

They have some good videos and Training at the Trade Shows. ARA has a Magazine... WELL worth it.....

Here is another GREAT Source.... Steve Spence, He trained me about 10 years ago and now has a bunch of Videos. I have or had his first Sublimation Video, gave it away to a new person. He has more advanced Videos now along with a book on how to make money from it....

http://www.dyetrans.com/software.ph...ning&title=Steve Spence Video Training Series

Yes, the Videos are expensive but they are all a Training Tax Deduction....

Also join some Forums like this one... I visit Engraving Etc. Daily as it has Sublimaton Info, along with Sawmill Creek in the Engraving Area. Johnson Plastics a Plastics and Sublimation Supplier now has a GREAT Forum...

Good Luck,

AL

Just saw this Sublimaton Training on Johnson Plastic... http://www.johnsonplastics.com/handson.html