Substrate choice?

[4R Graphics]

Hello All,
I have a quote I need to do and I am not sure what substrate to use any input would be great. Here is the job I have a wall that is 7' tall and 40' long it is a sheetrock wall with wood paneling on it. The customer wants us to do a digital print vinyl wall mural that covers the entire area. I can not mount to the wood paneling obviouslly ( it would look like crap). So here are the ideas that I have First one is to remove the paneling and apply either new flat paneling (such as a 5mm cabinet grade plywood and use furing strips underneath if need be to get the wall flat) use foam tape or screws and then patch all the holes and seams then paint it with enamel paint then apply the vinyl graphics.

Second idea is to pull down the paneling and use furing strips if needed to get wall flat and substrate panels to line up.I thought use a foam core board with either plastic or aluminum skins and apply to the wall with foam tape then clean up seams ( which I am not sure what to use for this since they are plastic or aluminum panels) then apply the graphics to the substrate.

Third option pull the paneling down fix the sheetrock paint the wall with enamel paint then apply the graphics ( I hate sheetrock work but could sub it out) I have no idea what the sheetrock looks like under the paneling as of right now.

I had also thought about using a .25" plywood as the first option instead of a thin 5mm but this will need to be screwed in completly so there are a lot more holes to patch but it would be more ridgid and impact resistant and I could as per the clients idea just mount it right over the current paneling.

This wall is some what out of the way for the most part so it doesnt get a lot of close contact with patrons but it is passed by within 5'-10' from every person who enters and leaves this establishment.

So what do you guys recommend I use for substrate and what do you recommend for mounting it also what do you recommend I do to get rid of the seams between the substrate boards for the smoothest surface available. The wood panels I can putty and sand but not sure about the plastic or aluminum panels.

I am open to any suggestions thanks.

 

[Gino]

Why can't you go right over the existing paneling ??

 

[4R Graphics]

I can not go over the current paneling because it is that old 1970's wood paneling with the vertical grooves in it and would look horrible if I wrapped it. It was also done wrong and has big gaps between panels and a million screws in it that are not flush at all.

 

[astro8]

I don't know your budget but we just did a similiar thing, 7' x 30'.

We used clear polycarb 1/4" thick that comes in a 100' roll with marr resistant satin face, backmounted the graphics and taped & s/steel fixtures to the wall.

Easy install, rolled right over the bumpy gyprock (sheetrock/drywall?) and looked dead smooth.

 

[Gino]

They do make a wall covering so you can wall paper over old paneling [with grooves and other imperfections] so one can re-paint a room without the hassles of making a mess by taking down paneling and making unsightly holes and gouges.

I've never used it, but heard that it works perfectly.

If you used this, it would make a lfat surface that you could then paint or gesso and apply your print directly to the new surface.

 

[4R Graphics]

Astro8,
If you want please pm me more details as to what you used and how you did it pics would be great or post them here for all if you want.

The client has a large budget and this is one of several jobs they are looking at us for so the better it is the more work I get.

 

[4R Graphics]

Gino,
Any idea what that wall covering stuff is called or where to get it?

 

[Billct2]

I used that wall covering in an earlier life as a painter. Any commercial paint/wallpaper store should have it. There ias also another that is calle "Nuwall" it's a fiberglass mat that covers a lot of blemishes.
Are you planning on installing the mural without any seams?

 

[GB2]

How about just covering the wall with Dibond or Alumalite and then applying the print. If you secure all the panels together well where they butt each other, I wouldn't even concern myself with substrate seams on the surface then.

 

[B-RAD Graphics]

I used that wall covering in an earlier life as a painter. Any commercial paint/wallpaper store should have it. There ias also another that is calle "Nuwall" it's a fiberglass mat that covers a lot of blemishes.
Are you planning on installing the mural without any seams?

is that Nuwall an adhesive backed product?

 

[Billct2]

Nuwall comes with a bucket of adhesive, you apply a coat to the wall, lay the mat, then apply a coat over the mat.

 

[GB2]

How in the world would you expect to put an adhesive digital print on top of fiberglass mat or wallpaper liner?? You need a solid surface.

Ohh.....that's how! However, if you aren't experienced with skim coating walls in that way, I think it would be a whole lot easier and smoother to cover the wall with another layer of sheetrock.

 

[B-RAD Graphics]

Nuwall comes with a bucket of adhesive, you apply a coat to the wall, lay the mat, then apply a coat over the mat.

 

[astro8]

Can't release pics ( I know, I know...but some of the companies we do work for are really touchy ) but what to look for is roll polycarbonate that has a satin face so it's anti glare. It's also used here on some traffic signage. Haven't a clue where to find it over there.

The type we used is marr resistant, has a pebble type texture. The area where it is mounted has a heavy traffic flow of people.

We printed the graphics, laminated with white and back mounted them. The guys installed it with some tape and a row of stainless allen head type screw fittings along top and bottom. It smoothed right out after unrolling and mounting.

 

[4R Graphics]

Thanks for the replies I have a wallpaper place finding the wall covering stuff as we speak. The fiberglass stuff sounds great but I think it would be a pain considering the location not to mention the smell. As for the alumilite panels that pretty much what I was thinking but never had to put multiple panels together edge to edge so wasnt sure how the seams would be. As for the graphic I am not sure if its going to be one horizontal seam or vertical seams but I cant do it in one piece as vinyl and my printer only does 60" and the wall/mural is 7 feet tall and 40 feet long.

I was thumbing cataloges and ran a cross some .150" lexan in roll form they have 74" wide which is a few inches short (could put a trim board on top to cover the few inches it would be short) and they also have 100" wide which means I have to trim it for a length of 40feet on a ladder and try to keep it as straight as possible.

I was thinking about the lexan mount it with either 3M VHB 4941 tape or perhaps a liquid adhesive right to the paneling and it would be seamless since it is a roll that is 74" or 100" wide. The lexan cost with labor would be in the same price range as all the other options so far considering materials and labor.

Does air release vinyl have any problems mounting to lexan?

I have heard that you need to let the lexan outgas but any other issues with it mounitng and staying for a long life this is indoors so we are looking at a lifetime of at least the factory warranty 5+ years.

As for the vinyl I am thinking about using some left over oracal air release mid level wrap film I have sitting in the shop. Not sure the number right now but if I remember correctly it is designed for wrapping flat and moderate curves I believe its a cast.

 

[4R Graphics]

Atro8,
I understand about the pics. I just figured a pic would be easier to figure how you guys did it. I get what you did you mounted it with tape and used a trim boarder with screws to cover edges and keep it in place.

Correct me if I am wrong but you guys reverse printed it on clear stuck it to the shetting them backed it with white then applied the tape to the back of the white vinyl stuck it to the wall then trimmed it out with the aluminum.

Is this correct?

 

[Billct2]

If 5' is your largest panel then 5' dibond is may be a good option, apply in the shop then install on site. Of course you'll have to do a good registration which may not be easy depending on the design, but I've seen this done often. As for the lexan, it's nice because of the sizes you can get off a roll. Reverse application is good to protect the graphic but it will change the color some.

 

[astro8]

Atro8,
I understand about the pics. I just figured a pic would be easier to figure how you guys did it. I get what you did you mounted it with tape and used a trim boarder with screws to cover edges and keep it in place.

Correct me if I am wrong but you guys reverse printed it on clear stuck it to the shetting them backed it with white then applied the tape to the back of the white vinyl stuck it to the wall then trimmed it out with the aluminum.

Is this correct?

Reverse print on clear in vertical panels then lam with white through the laminator.

I backmounted it to the polycarb dry by hand. I wouldn't use easyapply or any air release vinyl as you don't want any adhesive marks, silvering or patterns through the graphic.

Installed with stainless allen heads, no trims, that's what they wanted as it suited the graphics...

The sketch is a setup for registration, there was no room for error as you can tell by the crop of the graphic...1/8" & 1/4" pinlines running through every join all over it.

I just got under the tables ( we have about 10 of these fold up tables we use for jobs just like this) at every join helped by the back light above so I could see the patterns line up. Our light table was way to small for this job.

Taped the print in place and squeegeed them down dry.

Be careful with the VHB or any adhesives as they can 'outgas' and ruin your print after a couple of weeks. I had a predominantly black print to work with so I was pretty safe. On white or coloured prints the VHB (or any adhesive for that matter, especially glazing silicone) can mark the print visibly. Use sparingly or not at all preferably, try and hide it behind a trim or whatever if possible.

We do a fair bit of back mounted graphics on glass panels that are affixed to walls so have seen the effects that silicone and adhesives can have on vinyl graphics.

These days we tell glazers to mount the glass by using a channel top and bottom..NO GLUE

That roll of polycarb will be heavy, need some helping hands installing it.

 

[d fleming]

Skim coat the paneling with sheetrock mud to cover the gaps. Apply whatever graphic you need to wall. Possibly phototex?