suggestions for best way to get white opaque face for face/edge lit channel letter

[Bradley D]

I'm looking for suggestions on the best way to get an opaque face for a trimless channel letter that will have 1" acrylic face (maybe 7/8" reveal) that is edge lit with the face being opaque and white. I've done this in the past using white blockout vinyl that has a black back side. I wasn't very happy with the way it looked during the daytime because the acrylic looks dark when not lit (see photos in links below of "DQ" sign). This might be due to the 2447 acrylic which is milky white and might be due to the fact that the inside of the vinyl is black or that inside of the letter is dark. My new plan is to apply white vinyl first and then the blockout white vinyl over top of the white vinyl but I'm not sure if anyone has a better suggestion. The client has requested 2447 milky white 1" for the acyrlic and the channel let part will be just 1 in deep.


https://maps.app.goo.gl/yoa6aQCzRyYAC2i98

Jig Sign - Specialty Channel Letters

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[bowtievega]

I'm not sure there is a way to get the edge of 2447 to not look dark when it is not illuminated. I agree that the black back of that film is just making it worse. Does light up nice though! Only option I would consider would be to apply painted aluminum faces to the front of the acrylic. We do that for alot of push thru letters when the customer just wants edge lighting.

 

[Bradley D]

I don't know much about vinyl unlike most in the sign business...can you install vinyl over vinyl in my case white block out vinyl over white vinyl from 3m.

 

[JBurton]

Prepainted .020 white aluminum, mounted with 3m 467mp or other double stick sheeting. It'll leave a damned fine silver edge, but I can't imagine it being unacceptable. I'd opt to mount the whole sheet of .020 to the acrylic before cutting it, it probably wouldn't even alter your method, as 020 is slightly thicker than the facestock on some decent acm.

 

[DarkerKat]

You could paint the sheet white before applying the film. Why did the client request 2447, are you matching an existing sign? Maybe explain to them that it is not well suited for edgelit and suggest substituting 7328?

 

[Bradley D]

They want 2447 so it looks best at night and we are going to do an aluminum skin on face that will be prepainted white. I will post pics when done. Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

 

[DarkerKat]

They want 2447 so it looks best at night and we are going to do an aluminum skin on face that will be prepainted white. I will post pics when done. Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

Cool, we've always use 7328 as our default for lit signs, if you happen to have any comparison images I'd love to see them (just genuinely curious if there is a better option)

 

[Bradley D]

We don't use 2447 for face lit just push through and edge lit with the exception of black perf vinyl on face. The 2447 will have show through with clear adhesives and screws whereas the 7328 does not

 

[DarkerKat]

Yeah that's honestly why I'm curious - we use 7328 universally but we do have some light drop off on the front edges for push-through (though that might be unavoidable)

 

[JBurton]

we do have some light drop off on the front edges for push-through (though that might be unavoidable)

I opt for clear acrylic, with a white poly backer. It gives very uniform light distribution, the while poly acting as a diffuser and the clear just giving an impression of depth. The downside is that the letters are clear, so the depth at a persective isn't preserved as well as white acrylic, plus the added cost of the polycarbonate.
If you wanted to stick with the 7328, add a chamfer with a V bit. It will reduce the distance the light has to travel to reach those 'corners' of the push through letters (when viewed from a profile).

 

[DarkerKat]

I opt for clear acrylic, with a white poly backer. It gives very uniform light distribution, the while poly acting as a diffuser and the clear just giving an impression of depth. The downside is that the letters are clear, so the depth at a persective isn't preserved as well as white acrylic, plus the added cost of the polycarbonate.

I've seen a few signs built like that in the wild but haven't gotten to see the inside guts to figure out how they work (I had thought it was just translucent white vinyl on the inside of the clear) Are you gluing the clear push through letters to the poly carb or are they just stacked inside the sign?

We have done domed/rounded push-though white to get a faux neon look before but those are expensive due to extra CNC time, never considered the chamfer but that's not a bad idea (doubt I could get a client to pay for the added time on an issue that only really bugs me)
*sorry to have taken over this thread, just interesting to see how other shops do the same sign types*

 

[JBurton]

Are you gluing the clear push through letters to the poly carb or are they just stacked inside the sign?

The clear has a lip around the letters, the poly is usually just a big rectangle with holes that align with welded studs on the back of the face panel. We tried white vinyl, but it tool longer, was more fragile while assembling, and didn't diffuse as well as lexan.
A note on the gluing of acrylic to poly. Don't do it. It may last a year, it may last 10 years, but it will fail. We just had an emergency removal on a sign that was 10 years old, because one letter came unglued, then another the next day. It was really wild, but once we got the sign back here and pulled some letters off, you could see that the glue did not get fully spread out, and they had just hung on for dear life.

 

[Ryze Signs]

I've found that white acrylic thicker than typical 3/16 thickness doesn't light well and I use clear acrylic for all my push throughs/ edge lighting. The light is diffused by using a 3/16 white acrylic backer that is glued to the clear. The faces are either left polished, sanded, or have vinyl applied to the face depending on customer preference. You can get the letters to tint different colors by applying a vinyl to the backer.

You could route out the inside of the 1" white acrylic for each letter so the light isn't passing through so much plastic. Or you could cut a thin ring of 1" white then glue it to another piece behind the face or directly to the aluminum face.

 

[DarkerKat]

Cool, I'll have to get a test run with clear to compare the pros/cons. We've had similar issues with thicker white acrylic (used 1" white for a push through earlier this year, looked great in daylight but the light definitely had issues getting all the way through on narrower sections)

 

[Bradley D]

Yeah that's honestly why I'm curious - we use 7328 universally but we do have some light drop off on the front edges for push-through (though that might be unavoidable)

Time to try to 2447 or I like Ryze Signs suggestions of the clear with light control options

 

[Bradley D]

Ok. Final results.

 

[JBurton]

Love it. Only issue I see is the breaking of the cardinal rule for reverse channel letters. Dark letters on light background. But it sounds like the customer knows what they are asking for.
Also, if you tie the red and black in a square knot, they point away from each other, it makes test lighting 'safer'. Same thing works for a quick taser whip with 120v. Or when you need to identify line vs neutral in a dark attic.

 

[Bradley D]

like the square knot idea....I also usually make one shorter than the other. I personally don't like the design--looks too black and white for my taste....also has a set of reverse that are black returns with white faces.