Summa frame made out of wood...?

[markdarian]

Hey guys,

We're looking to purchase a cutter and we've narrowed it down between Summa F1330 and Esko X24.

The sales rep for Esko said something very weird about Summa: He mentioned that the Summa cutters have a frame build out of wood instead of metal, and that's why they're so much cheaper than the Esko cutters.

Is there any truth to that at all? It seems pretty ridiculous.

 

[balstestrat]

I think he means the part that is below the belt which is a wooden platen. Really nothing strange about that. I'm quite sure it still has a steel frame that it's built around. It just doesn't have the expensive steel precision built top.

And the wood one works fine, there's no issues with that.

 

[CanuckSigns]

the panels below the conveyor belt are made of MDF skinned with aluminum on the summa, ive only had our summa for a few months but i did a ton of research before buying and I've never come across anyone with an issue due to this.

Sounds like your Esko rep is making up issues with the summa to sell their product.

 

[iPrintStuff]

Maybe not even to just sell it, probably just trying to justify why it’s costs an arm and a leg more

 

[markdarian]

the panels below the conveyor belt are made of MDF skinned with aluminum on the summa, ive only had our summa for a few months but i did a ton of research before buying and I've never come across anyone with an issue due to this.

Sounds like your Esko rep is making up issues with the summa to sell their product.

Thanks for the info! Are you happy with your Summa so far?

We've demo'd both machines and they seem pretty much identical in terms of speed, tools, capabilities, etc. The esko is just ~$25k more expensive.

 

[iPrintStuff]

An extra 25k for a steel frame seems steep!

 

[CanuckSigns]

Thanks for the info! Are you happy with your Summa so far?

We've demo'd both machines and they seem pretty much identical in terms of speed, tools, capabilities, etc. The esko is just ~$25k more expensive.

I'm pretty happy with the summa, most of the issues I have with it stem from our dealer not having enough experience with the machine and relying on summa support.

What are you buying it to do? Like any equipment it has its strengths and weaknesses, its great at most cutting tasks, however the router attachment feels like an afterthought, its definitely not a replacement for a proper CNC router, but for routing basic materials to shape it does a pretty good job, it is better than sending out sheets of Dibond to be cut to shape and waiting a week and paying shop minimums. The goproduce software is lacking a lot of basic router functions.

If you are buying it for trimming prints, cutting decals, cutting pvc and Coloplast prints its amazing! Its easily saved us hundreds of hours of labor in the 3 months we've had it.

If you get the summa, make sure you get a second tangential module, and pay for the barcode server, it makes loading jobs much easier!

 

[markdarian]

An extra 25k for a steel frame seems steep!

Way too steep for me. Plus we've been misled by the Esko salesmen several times throughout the process, so we're going with Summa.

I'm pretty happy with the summa, most of the issues I have with it stem from our dealer not having enough experience with the machine and relying on summa support.

What are you buying it to do? Like any equipment it has its strengths and weaknesses, its great at most cutting tasks, however the router attachment feels like an afterthought, its definitely not a replacement for a proper CNC router, but for routing basic materials to shape it does a pretty good job, it is better than sending out sheets of Dibond to be cut to shape and waiting a week and paying shop minimums. The goproduce software is lacking a lot of basic router functions.

If you are buying it for trimming prints, cutting decals, cutting pvc and Coloplast prints its amazing! Its easily saved us hundreds of hours of labor in the 3 months we've had it.

If you get the summa, make sure you get a second tangential module, and pay for the barcode server, it makes loading jobs much easier!

Nice! that's good to hear. We're gonna be using it mostly for corrugated sheets, cutting foam inserts, cutting and creasing folding carton, trimming art prints, etc. So no router attachment for us.

And yup! We're getting 2 modules. I'll ask our rep about the barcode server, I thought that came with the purchase by default.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Way too steep for me. Plus we've been misled by the Esko salesmen several times throughout the process, so we're going with Summa.


Nice! that's good to hear. We're gonna be using it mostly for corrugated sheets, cutting foam inserts, cutting and creasing folding carton, trimming art prints, etc. So no router attachment for us.

And yup! We're getting 2 modules. I'll ask our rep about the barcode server, I thought that came with the purchase by default.

Lol, you will quickly find out that nothing on the summa comes as default, everything is an add on

 

[iPrintStuff]

The only thing that puts me off getting the F series is there is pretty much only one company in the UK that sells/services these machines and everybody else “selling” them does it via that company.

I could go on all day about how useless said company is with our S class. From the admin not knowing what they’re talking about, to tech support giving me wrong information.. I bet the machines are great, I’m just not sure we could get one given how clueless the support is. We’d probably have to pay the extra 25k just to make sure we don’t get that tech support and It’d be well worth it.

 

[CanuckSigns]

The only thing that puts me off getting the F series is there is pretty much only one company in the UK that sells/services these machines and everybody else “selling” them does it via that company.

I could go on all day about how useless said company is with our S class. From the admin not knowing what they’re talking about, to tech support giving me wrong information.. I bet the machines are great, I’m just not sure we could get one given how clueless the support is. We’d probably have to pay the extra 25k just to make sure we don’t get that tech support and It’d be well worth it.

We have a similar issue, there are 2 dealers in Canada, one has been selling the f series for 10 years and seems fairly knowledgeable, the other has been selling it for a year and the techs are fairly clueless on these machines.

But when we got quoted, the new company was $25,000 less expensive, so we took the chance. Honestly I've learned more from YouTube and chatting with other owners online than I have from the techs, the machines are pretty well built and I doubt you will have issues with the actual machine, most issues are human error.

 

[ewded]

Our company had a Summa S with tangential knife. We had to return it as it was faulty, the engineer came like 5 times changing mobo and stuff, the thing never worked correctly. I'm sure most of the machines works just fine, but that was my experience.

 

[iPrintStuff]

Our S class has had a whole host of weird and wonderful unresolved issues since February. It works fine for a week or two then will start doing all sorts of funky stuff.

Recently it wouldn’t cut any code out of onyx beginning with a 6, but had no issue with the 9. (The 6 and 9 codes obviously telling cut server what end of the sheet is loaded). I already found a patch from onyx directly and got it working again before this company’s tech support phoned me and passed me through three different people that all told me cutting the “6” code (that ive been doing over a year) wasn’t possible and never had been via onyx. He also disputed that I’d ever managed to make it work. Without going into detail he said that cut files from onyx only work if they are the same way up as the print preview (essentially rendering the barcode system pointless).

So after about 10 mins of him explaining to me how wrong i was, I enlightened him to the patch and confirmed the “impossible” was actually working again and offered to send him the patch. He hung up pretty quickly after that!

Now the serious issue there was that if I hadn’t also went to onyx, I’d have had to take three clueless engineers word for my problem - all of which said it wasn’t possible.

If they can get such a simple thing like that so consistently wrong, how am I meant to trust throwing £50+k their way?

 

[FireSprint.com]

I think if you are looking at Esko, you should be looking at Zund and possibly Multicam. You get what you pay for here, but most shops don't need the Zund/Esko level of cutter. The difference will really start to show after your running hundreds of boards a day, 7 days a week.

 

[ProColorGraphics]

Thanks for the info! Are you happy with your Summa so far?

We've demo'd both machines and they seem pretty much identical in terms of speed, tools, capabilities, etc. The esko is just ~$25k more expensive.

I have had the F1612 for the past 3 years and absolutely love it!! Are there some things I wish were different, of course. Mostly it is all software stuff since they have a specific software that has to run it. I have been in touch with Summa directly and most of the changes I am hoping to have are in the works to be implemented. There really hasn't been anything I have needed to do that it can't handle.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Way too steep for me. Plus we've been misled by the Esko salesmen several times throughout the process, so we're going with Summa.



Nice! that's good to hear. We're gonna be using it mostly for corrugated sheets, cutting foam inserts, cutting and creasing folding carton, trimming art prints, etc. So no router attachment for us.

And yup! We're getting 2 modules. I'll ask our rep about the barcode server, I thought that came with the purchase by default.

That steel frame and top only makes a difference for routing. The big difference between the 2 machines is the Summa uses a Kress Router while the Esko uses a spindle. A Spindle is more powerful and efficient.

 

[balstestrat]

That steel frame and top only makes a difference for routing. The big difference between the 2 machines is the Summa uses a Kress Router while the Esko uses a spindle. A Spindle is more powerful and efficient.

You have been able to get the HF router for years now.

 

[FatCat]

Our F Series has the standard router, the HF Router is like a $10k upgrade...not worth it IMHO. I have used our router to cut polymetal, PVC and 1/2" MDO with no issues. Besides we have true 4x8 CNC table to cut heavier materials when needed.

We love this thing, we find new things to do with it all the time and it is a true time saver if you have the volume/need for a tool like this. As far as the "frame" being wood, that is false.

 

[White Haus]

You have been able to get the HF router for years now.

This also adds another $15k or so to the price tag. Not worth it in my opinion, we went went with the standard Kress router and it's been working fine for what we need. If you need a big beefy router, buy a dedicated cnc.

 

[balstestrat]

This also adds another $15k or so to the price tag. Not worth it in my opinion, we went went with the standard Kress router and it's been working fine for what we need. If you need a big beefy router, buy a dedicated cnc.

People really throwing the prices around here huh. When buying it with the cutter you should be able to negotiate the price around or even under $10k and the normal router is about 40% of that price.
It's only recommended if doing a lot of routing. And hey I'm not saying one should buy it but I personally think it's pretty reasonable if you want that upgrade. There is a space for this as well on the market just for the people who need it.