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Summa or Graphtec

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by Cooper E, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    Dig into the Roland specs then do some math. I did just that when Roland released their latest series of plotters. That's why I bought another Summa.
     
  2. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Very Active Member

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    How is data gathered, please tell me? I was always told it was through trial and error with method as the process. So if i have used graphtecs from 2006 - 2012 and in 2012 we added a summa and all the issues with registration go away on the Summa but are still present on the Graphtec is that not data? Or the fact that to this day the summa still doesn't have any of those issues and we do all the same jobs, is that not data?

    As for the magnetic, Summa is the ones who told us how to do it, so are they wrong in saying their machine is not fit to operate in that method?
     
  3. rjssigns

    rjssigns Major Contributor

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    It's cuz Bob is more smarter and does stuff gooder.:rolleyes:
     
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  4. FrankW

    FrankW Active Member

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    There is a forum like Signs101 in Germany ( in german language) for professionals, and they did a survey a few weeks ago which plotters are in use day by day at the sign shops. 121 Members have voted, and the results are:

    Summa 54%
    Mimaki 24%
    Graphtec 12%
    Roland 4%
    GCC 1%
    Others 5%

    If comparing tracking accuracy and repeatability, Summa is with up to 12m on a S-Class with media up to 760mm width the best I have found on the market. The OPOS X-System is with special functionality like OPOS XY, OPOS XY2, OPOS BARCODE, OPOS SHEET MODE, OPOS PANNELING and so on for my opinion the most functional contour cutting system on a roll plotter. For example, if comparing speed even of the regular OPOS (not CAM) with the contour cutting system on a Roland, the difference is significant. With up to 128 markers, OPOS could find and compensate deviations which other cutters with only four markers can't recognize.

    One time a customer (we are dealers) comes to our shop to have a look on a latex printer to buy. He have told us that he owns a Graphtec which is nearly new, and so he doesn't need a contour cutting plotter to his latex ... after the demonstration he trades-in his Graphtec and orders a S-Class 2.

    I have seen one time a comparison of the Graphtec FC8000 and the Summa S-Class 2: the Summa is faster with regular Cut only and Print & Cut (up to 60%), for perforation cut the Graphtec knife holder position needs to be changed by the user, what is not needed when using an S-Class and so on. For power users, together with OPOS BARCODE, Contour cutting of multiple jobs on a roll can be carried out completely automatically.
     
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  5. particleman

    particleman Member

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    What point are you trying to make here? That is all this forum is, real world opinions. If you want hard data go compare spec sheets. Salesmen are great at spouting specs, but that doesn't translate into real world reliability. I can't speak for others but I've used a number of Graphtecs and don't intend on using another one. My opinion? Absolutely. You aren't going to find any manufacturer share things like # of repairs and service calls, types of calls, etc.
     
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  6. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    Have had a Mimaki CGFX years ago which was actually excellent but our Summa S160T is better. Been using the Summa ever since and its a workhorse. Their support is also excellent. Even with the new company - Phil who is also on here often was even on their website chat one day when I needed to order a part.

    We regularly contour cut 20 foot long x 45" logos printed on 3M 680 reflective (laminated with 3M 8548G) for one of our larger clients and it nails it perfect every time. That one single logo is a LOT of money - heck our cost for just the material on that logo is a LOT. One ruined one would be around a $400 mistake just in our own raw material costs. Eventually I'm going to upgrade to the newer T2 version.
     
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  7. Cooper E

    Cooper E Fall Protection Signs and Safety

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    I've used their support and it's been great both phone and tech for my DC4 and D140. I'll be going with a second D140 with OPUS because I've seen the difference with and without it. The thread reinforces the way I was already leaning based on my research but hearing from people real world experience helps solidify my direction. Thanks for the input.
     
  8. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    I think if you can afford the Summa it would be the better value. If things are tight a Graphtec will still get you there.
    I have the poor man's CE6000 Graphtec (made in China). It does what I need it to do, mostly contour cut around prints.
    Not many issues with the OPOS once used long enough to understand the nuts & bolts.
    Get what you can afford now and build off that.

    wayne k
    guam usa
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  9. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    Sport, data is running exactly the same job on both machines, over and over again varying the jobs, and actually measuring the outcomes and differences. Not spec sheets, not opinions, not anecdotes, data.
     
  10. ikarasu

    ikarasu Active Member

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    How about you, have you run the same cut job on both machines over and over? If not than them being equal is also just your opinion.

    They use different parts, different technologies... Unless everything is 100% the same, one HAS to be better than the other. Either marginally, or by a long shot.

    The Tangential is beneficial in a lot of ways. It cuts not only magnetic better... But diamond grade, egp, high intensity....even paint mask better.

    The Barcode and roll to roll option in the summa is also a great benefit. I used to do rolls of decals per month... Having it automatically cut the whole roll would save hours upon hours.. Why graphtec hasn't added roll to roll is beyond me.


    That said... Summa touts how they're better for perf cut because you don't need to switch the pen to a second slot. I've done about 40,000 perf cuts in one month and never needed to change the cut strip. I can't imagine doing that volume on the summa without messing up the strip.

    I believe summa even states their flexcut us for straight cuts only. On my graphtec I've cut tons of ovals and circles with no issues.

    They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Saying they're both 100% equal is ludicrous. If all your doing is cutting shop hours for your local mom and pop stores, sure.... They're equal.

    But if you truly think they're equal in every way... Youre not using them to their full potential.
     
  11. jasonx

    jasonx Very Active Member

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    I wish you could control the roll to roll better. Feeding the vinyl behind that bar is sometimes difficult. Other then that it works well.
     
  12. bob

    bob Major Contributor

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    First, I never said they were equal, a ridiculous notion. I said they were functionally equivalent, that means they do the same things but perhaps in different ways. I do not have to conduct the experiment in order to describe the experiment in order to gather data.

    A motorcycle is different from an automobile. Vastly different. Which one is better at transporting you? By your dubious reasoning one HAS to be better than the other, so which one is better? More closely, a Toyota sedan is different from a Ford sedan. Different parts, different technologies. Which one HAS to be better?
     
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  13. Robert Gruner

    Robert Gruner Member

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    So...who makes the best roll vinyl cutter? Twice over the course of the last 30 years, I have worked for Summa selling their roll cutters to dealers...and, twice over the past 30 years, I have worked as a dealer selling both Summa and Graphtec roll cutters to end users...It is my opinion that the Summa cutters are superior in manufacture and performance.
     
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  14. jcskikus

    jcskikus Owner, Designer, Installer in the Sign Arts

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    I have to agree with the majority of people in this post to say that I've also used Graphtec, Summa, Roland and Mutoh plotters over the past 20 years and the best I used was the Summa. Tight registration marks, better optical for finding them as well. As long as you kept the speed at a slow pace, I was able to run cut paths at over 30 feet. The only issue was the same as the Graphtec and Mutoh: some material/laminates cause a fail for the registration marks. I either place matte vinyl around the marks in which they are then easily read or lowered the light source in the area (blinds/lights) so the glare on the material wasn't so apparent.
     
  15. burgmurk

    burgmurk Member

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    I've used 'em all, and have Roland Camm-1 at my current workplace. IT IS THE WORST P.O.S. PLOTTER I"VE EVER USED.
     
  16. jpescobar

    jpescobar New Member

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    I've found a reseller and he's a Roland authorized dealer. He's selling known brand machines and consumables like Secabo, Trotec, Trodat and 3M. Anyway, he has a GCC Jaguar IV (J4-132) vinyl cutter and I'm considering to buy it with an Epson SureColor 40600 instead of a HP Latex Print & Cut 335. What do you think ? Should I make that choice or I should stick with the Latex ?
     
  17. TomK

    TomK Member

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    Epson over latex all day long, get a summa cutter if you can.
     
  18. ikarasu

    ikarasu Active Member

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    Epson isn't bad. I'd stick to latex... But honestly they're both good. They both have their benefits and limitations... Neither of which are game breaking though.

    Stay away from Jaguars... Summa.or graphtec if you want a good plotter. I've never used a jaguar... But I know a window tint place that has the one. They've come to our shop a few times to borrow time on our graphtec... They say it's way better and their jaguar is down more than it is up.

    Maybe they got a lemon... But they also say the graphtec is much more accurate and way faster.

    I bought a graphtec for my house. It was double the Jaguars and other cheap plotters.that on paper would.suit my.needs. But the graphtec can be re-sold for a good price later... And they're future proof. I have no doubt in 10 years it'll still be working.

    You probably couldn't sell a gcc jaguar for 1/4 the price the day after you buy it.
     
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  19. Dukenukem117

    Dukenukem117 New Member

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    If I just need straight cuts (rectangles), do you think something cheap like US Cutter would work? It uses the same blades as Rolands.
     
  20. Jburns

    Jburns Member

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    No. Not for a serious sign shop. That is a hobby grade cutter in the class of cameo, and craft cutters.
     
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