Summa S2 D140 skips random objects in jobs

[Thomasleppa]

Our cutter has recently started to skip complete shapes when cutting jobs which includes several smaller elements. This has been going on now for a few weeks, and we have not been able to find out why. Our vendor has not been able to help with this, and Summa technical support in EU are on holidays. Any tips are greatly appreciated.

First we were sure it was a ethernet cable thing, as I know from the past that a cable problem stops some of the information to be sent resulting in incomplete paths - also our ethernet port is a bit damaged. But after trying both with different cables and with direct USB-connection we still have the same issue. If we send a job with 50 shapes most likely between 1-5 of these will not cut at all. The RIP (PrintFactory) shows the paths correctly and the cut simulator does not give any errors, but still every time a random shape will be skipped. You can send the same job several times and a different shape will skip.

Bladeholder is ok, cutting strip is ok. We have gone trough all basic procedures and tests, there are no clear signs of what could cause the issue. The cutter has been under quite heavy use daily for 3 years, and this is the first time we see this particular problem. Firmware is also the latest.

Any idea what could be causing this? To me it would still seem like a data transfer issue, but can't really say what could be causing it except perhaps some internal problem. Anyone seen anything similar before?

Really appreciate any help! Would love not to have to get a new cutter right now.
- Thomas

 

[Attila Nagy]

It happens the head stuck in up position. it is a mechanical fault. the software does not do random errors. Try to create a head Up position adjusting option. It used to be part of the head unit, but Summa skips that part for the new cutters.
This is only one of the must common I have found caused similar fault. My first guess.
Can you hear the blade hits the vinyl harder or louder sometimes.

 

[Thomasleppa]

Awesome, thanks for the reply. We're cutting a soft material so I can't really see or hear differences in landing. I was so focussed on a data transfer that I did not even consider that it could be the head which remains stuck in an up position. Could you explain further what you mean with the "head up position adjusting"? I will have to check this first thing tomorrow.

 

[PHILJOHNSON]

I suspect that this more of a software issue, and not the blade holder not lowering down correctly or getting stuck(this can happen with the older drag heads as they wear down over time, but we don't see this very often on a newer machine). One easy way to test this theory would be to create a job in Illustrator or Corel, and send it to the cutter using GoSign. If your start/stop points on the job sent from GoSign match up, you would know it's not a hardware issue, and more likely a setting in print factory like knife offset, overcut, etc. that needs to be adjusted. There are a lot of Summa dealers out there that have absolutely no idea how to operate this equipment, which it sounds like may be the case here, but if you strike out on getting any support we offer support plans where you can work with our team and I am sure they can figure out the root cause. We used to own and operate Summa for over 20 years, and our techs are the most experienced Summa guys in the industry.

Feel free to contact me if there is anything that I can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

 

[cornholio]

I second Phil and would suspect the driving software. We are only starting to deploy Printfactory, so my experience with it is limited.
My experience with heads stuck in the upper position is the same as Phil's.
I haven't seen it on S2 cutters, only on older ones, mainly Summasign series.
If it was a stuck head, you could expect partly cut objects.(the pen down movement is delayed.)
I work on Summa (Summagraphics) cutters for a very long time.(I met John Lash in Gistel once... that was after Airmark bought Summa from CalComp after the Crystaljet story...)

 

[Thomasleppa]

I second Phil and would suspect the driving software. We are only starting to deploy Printfactory, so my experience with it is limited.
My experience with heads stuck in the upper position is the same as Phil's.
I haven't seen it on S2 cutters, only on older ones, mainly Summasign series.
If it was a stuck head, you could expect partly cut objects.(the pen down movement is delayed.)
I work on Summa (Summagraphics) cutters for a very long time.(I met John Lash in Gistel once... that was after Airmark bought Summa from CalComp after the Crystaljet story...)

We have worked with printfactory extensively for years, and doubt the issue is there or in any setting - as like I mentioned our usage is daily and quite heavy. Our process is automated and always the same, so there are no changing parameters or manual adjustments. That's why I was suspecting a failing connection first, and if not that then a wear-and-tear issue of some kind.

 

[Thomasleppa]

I suspect that this more of a software issue, and not the blade holder not lowering down correctly or getting stuck(this can happen with the older drag heads as they wear down over time, but we don't see this very often on a newer machine). One easy way to test this theory would be to create a job in Illustrator or Corel, and send it to the cutter using GoSign. If your start/stop points on the job sent from GoSign match up, you would know it's not a hardware issue, and more likely a setting in print factory like knife offset, overcut, etc. that needs to be adjusted. There are a lot of Summa dealers out there that have absolutely no idea how to operate this equipment, which it sounds like may be the case here, but if you strike out on getting any support we offer support plans where you can work with our team and I am sure they can figure out the root cause. We used to own and operate Summa for over 20 years, and our techs are the most experienced Summa guys in the industry.

Feel free to contact me if there is anything that I can do to help.

Best regards,

Phil Johnson
Airmark Corporation
(800)527-7778, ext. 112
philj@airmark.com

Thanks, I will contact unless we manage to solve this. I mentioned the same in another reply, but our process is fully automated and identical from day-to-day. We only cut one material and there are no changes to any settings or parameters, so any troubleshooting we have usually relates to wear-and-tear and connections.

A while ago we had an issue with inconsistent cut depth which finally was solved by changing the coil setting. Never had to touch this before, and I do not know if it is related to this current bug.

 

[Attila Nagy]

There are 2 reason, why the head does not go down. 1. Mechanical, I have suggested earlier or 2. cracked ribbon cable. The 2nd one is more ROLAND specific, but happened with Summa cutters as well.

 

[Thomasleppa]

Let's see. I fiddled with the coil settings, lowered the speed, opened up all covers to see that the internals are ok, removed and re-installed the cutter in Printfactory and now for whatever reason it has been cutting well again. I'm afraid this is only temporary though, and will update this thread if the problem re-surfaces.

Sadly when it was leaving the shapes uncut I did not think to lower the speed and observe if it simply skipped those shapes or if it was moving the blade over them. That would have directly told me if it is a data communication issue or a mechanical one. At the moment I was too stressed out to think clearly. This is the first thing I will do if the problem returns.

 

[cornholio]

II remember having a loose coil once in a very old Summa. This gave sort of similar problems. Sometimes something ferromagnetic is attracted by the strong magnet and could possibly obstruct the movement of the pen/blade.
But as I wrote before, what directs me to the software, is the it misses complete objects and not only parts of them.

 

[netsol]

consider the possibility that it is a power management turning off the port issue
windows does this with ethernet, wifi & usb

go in device mgr go to both ports (ethrnet & usb, choose power management tab & remove check mark by allow computr to turn off this device to save power

it is difficult to decide if you missed cutting an object, or if the job ended prematurely