Summa users Riddle me this!!!

[blacknbart]

I'm using a HP 360 and 560 Latex with a Onyx 12 Rip and I find I get warped prints and I find it a gamble when print large qty's of decals. I sweat when I'm about to print and cut contour and or circle shape to find out the cuts are not perfect. I currently have a Fc8000 Grapthec and I'm hearing that Summa may be able to help give me positive results. The FC8000 has an "Method" in the manual to calculate the warp print, but beside being time consuming It doesn't work for me one bit. I quickly blame the printer, but I should think my FC8000 is not able to handle those situations. Some prints cut perfect and then some are off. Can a Summa take on this challenge? I need to stop sweating and start making killer decals!!!


Thanks for Help!!!

 

[AF]

Summa handles it with ease. You won't even remember having the problems you describe. You will also be shocked at how much more robust and heavy duty the Summa is compared to your FC. The summa is a high quality European industrial machine with very well executed software. You get what you pay for.

 

[FrankW]

Summa uses an additional line at the front of the prints which will be scanned on a few positions to recognize "bowing" and compensate it. Works very well with our customers (we are HP and Summa-Dealers).

There are additional useful functionality for optimizing cutting quality, for example intermediate markers and OPOS Panelling, which means the cutter cuts tiles of the job to reduce feeding. And productivity features like OPOS Barcode, which allows to cut several different jobs from one roll completely unattended.

 

[player]

Are there any other makes that can see the sag and compensate for it?

 

[kffernandez]

you might want to search around the forums first about users having problems with the current line of summa's. or at least test one first using a printout from your latex printer. it would be such a waste if you invest the $$$ only to find out that you still haven't found the solution to your problems.

kelly

 

[bigben]

I have a latex printer with a summa cutter. With the ''bow line reader'' from the cutter, I've NEVER add accuracy problems.

If you don't want to buy another cutter, use vinyl with a 90# liner, your prints will be strait and won't need the compensation option.

 

[bigben]

Are there any other makes that can see the sag and compensate for it?

The only others I know are flatbed cutter table like zund.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Our only regret about buying a Summa is not getting the OPOS- Cam model. We print on odd color materials on the latex 360 and some times the white light sensors has trouble, especially on reflective and chrome surfaces. I hear the camera all but eliminated that issue.

As for misaligned cuts we occasionally get them but it comes down to 1 of 3 things.
1) Way too much heat on the printer for the material
2) trying to use the HP compensation tools which is less intuitive than the Summa line
3) Onyx 12 screwing up in cutserver.

 

[reQ]

i really would like to try Summa, but i am to used for Versaworks work flow, don't want to change to 3rd party RIP software & learn again...

 

[blacknbart]

Which Model can Handle Cut Through feature?

I really like the Latex printers I've used in the past HP 155, HP255 and currently the 360 and brand new 560. The 155 and 255 had bowing issues and it seems that HP corrected those issues with the 360 and 560. I've also moved into using a General Formulation's product with a Stay Flat 90# liner. I'll have to look into the summa for my next cutter for sure. I do have one more question.

Which Model Summa can handle the Cut through feature? I'm needing a Model that can handle 54'' material like the FC8000 I'm using currently.

 

[bigben]

Which Model Summa can handle the Cut through feature? I'm needing a Model that can handle 54'' material like the FC8000 I'm using currently.

All of them. I have a D160R and if I had to do it again, I would pay the extra $$$ to get the tangential knife, better downforce and take up (optional) of the S2 series. But I'm still very happy with my machine for over about 5 years now.

 

[bigben]

i really would like to try Summa, but i am to used for Versaworks work flow, don't want to change to 3rd party RIP software & learn again...

Before changing for a latex printer, I was using versaworks with my roland printers. Now, I run Caldera and it's by far a superior rip than versawork.

 

[TomK]

you might want to search around the forums first about users having problems with the current line of summa's. or at least test one first using a printout from your latex printer. it would be such a waste if you invest the $$$ only to find out that you still haven't found the solution to your problems.

kelly

Kelly,

You and I were having the same problems, just wondering if you ever got it figured out, and if so, what was the solution?


Tom

 

[reQ]

Before changing for a latex printer, I was using versaworks with my roland printers. Now, I run Caldera and it's by far a superior rip than versawork.

How hard was the transition? what main advantages over VW?

 

[Dennis422]

I have FC8600-130 and HP L330 which I bought 3 months ago. Before this HP, I had L25500 which I bought used.
I never had issues with my Graphtec when I printed with my old printer. As soon I got the new one, bowing showed up.
That is when I learned that the used printer already had a bow compensation programed by the original owner. After I did it on the new one, Graphtec is cutting flawlessly.

I understand that Summa is better cutter, that is cuts and holds the registration on longer prints better than Graphtec, but.....
Graphtec is an awesome cutter, Summa is first and Graphtec is second on the quality list, a distant third place might be ........ (put you brand name there)
When I bought mine, my budget was limited, and Summa was almost double the price. That is the reason I own Graphtec.
But, just because there is a better cutter out there, that is not the reason to get it if your current one is still doing a great job.
When it is time to replace it because it is failing and loosing quality, then yes, go for Summa.

Good luck

 

[Snydo]

Our only regret about buying a Summa is not getting the OPOS- Cam model.

We got an ST140 with OPOS-CAM about a month ago, and all I can say is WOW....sooo much faster than our ST160 with regular OPOS.

For some reason Summa undersells this feature, it's much faster than they tell you it is. If you have a heavy production load it is easily worth every extra penny.

 

[FrankW]

We got an ST140 with OPOS-CAM about a month ago, and all I can say is WOW....sooo much faster than our ST160 with regular OPOS.

For some reason Summa undersells this feature, it's much faster than they tell you it is. If you have a heavy production load it is easily worth every extra penny.

The Problem with OPOS-CAM was: it was available since nearly 10 years, but wasn't very functional. For the first years, OPOS-CAM can't do OPOS XY and can't do OPOS BARCODE. I have a history of nearly 18 years selling and supporting Summa Plotters in switzerland ... a few months ago we have got the first CAM-Demo-Unit.

OPOS-CAM-Plotters still can only be used with Windows PC's because of the software needed to drive the camera. And regular OPOS-Plotters are easier to find markers which are not on the expected spot (for example because of skewed media).

How hard was the transition? what main advantages over VW?

For me, VersaWorks is a program of really poor functionality ... it is worth what it costs. Even if considering that for my opinion Caldera isn't the best software for the latex printers, it for example have much more color management features, much better tiling functionality, manual nesting and much more. Even the simple FlexiPRINT HP Basic Edition have advantages against VersaWorks.

 

[FrankW]

i really would like to try Summa, but i am to used for Versaworks work flow, don't want to change to 3rd party RIP software & learn again...

You don't need third party RIP-Software. You could prepare contour cutting jobs too with the plugins Summa offers for Corel and Illustrator. It have more steps than using contour cutting on a RIP, but is possible. FlexiSIGN have a feature too where you can create Cut Contour Jobs in Flexi, export the data for printing and cut out of Flexi (easier than the summa solution, which is cheaper).

 

[kffernandez]

You and I were having the same problems, just wondering if you ever got it figured out, and if so, what was the solution?

hi tom!

i haven't had time to troubleshoot my summa yet. i'm usually fully booked the last 5 months of the year, with barely enough time to rest. so far, i have been able to produce sellable results with my print/cut by limiting the length to about 12". increasing the length will guarantee more waste. i plan on trying the following separate methods to troubleshoot it further: (1) check if i'm using the latest firmware (2) remove the heat completely during printing. (3) try a trialware cutting software to see if it is a software issue. (4) try a different vinyl with a thicker backing (5) dealer recommended to add more registration marks [left and right sides] - but i doubt this would help at all, since my summa is cutting all the reg marks perfectly as it is.

i should be able to work on my summa again this dec. i'll make sure to post an update if things improve.

kelly