Super Noob HANGING SIGN

[unclebun]

I can assure Gino that there do indeed exist places with no sign codes whatsoever. There are plenty of them around where we are. Codes or not, you still have to hang signs right and make them right.

Since we can't see the structure you are proposing to hang the sign from, I cannot comment on that. But for a free swinging sign of that size I can comment. The best material of what's available is probably Lusterboard. The weight of the plywood does help with the swinging in the wind. You definitely want to get the edge cap and silicone it onto the sign when you finish. It's a little tricky when you have wrapped the sign with printed vinyl to the edge, as it's easy to push the vinyl off the board when you fit the edging. If you're shopping at N. Glantz they have the hanger you will need to use. https://www.nglantz.com/2231912/Product/Glantz_Preferred_Supplier_YMPH1S

Here's a picture of a sign we put up in 2009 using Lusterboard and those hangers. It's still up today, and the board is still solid with no rot. Your sign won't last as long because of the digital print, but the board and hanger concept is solid.

 

[DL Signs]

I live by the "cover your butt" philosophy. All it takes is for a town that's lax to get someone new in charge, and start fining everyone who didn't get a permit, or for anything that's not up to code. Around here, fines are levied per day/ per violation, would rather have a permit, and a signed off inspection if it's required.

 

[Dbeeson07]

Don't know where I said officers don't know what they're talking about. I said, get it in writing. Verbals do not work when things go wrong. And I live in the true country. Most of our neighbors are between 60 and 80 acres. However, we still have codes and rules we must follow. We even have trash pickup at our place, recycling days for pickup and we have a police department and fire company not far down the road. We-ez big time.

That....... everybody started out somewhere is weak and pathetic. If you were starting out and not knowing how to do or make something, asking questions and listening, as robert would say....... you'd see my first answers were very helpful, but when you come back with the same ol' crap others say, then I can't care, either. This site is for professionals and you are not acting very professional. Nobody cares if you're a newbie or not. It helps, but only if you wanna keep you and your business professional. Outbursts and calling people names isn't a good idea.

Another thing, please try not to put words in my mouth and make things up about what you think or perceived me to say. Either get it straight or keep your piehole shut.

Now, suddenly, when someone else says you'll get sued if ya put it up, your ears perk up...... but you said you don't hafta worry. So, which is it ??

Dbee, ya might need to stay focused and think about what you wanna say. If ya don't like answers, ignore them, but childish outbursts and name calling is not gonna get ya anywhere.

This place is no place for emotions

Don't know where I said officers don't know what they're talking about. I said, get it in writing. Verbals do not work when things go wrong. And I live in the true country. Most of our neighbors are between 60 and 80 acres. However, we still have codes and rules we must follow. We even have trash pickup at our place, recycling days for pickup and we have a police department and fire company not far down the road. We-ez big time.

That....... everybody started out somewhere is weak and pathetic. If you were starting out and not knowing how to do or make something, asking questions and listening, as robert would say....... you'd see my first answers were very helpful, but when you come back with the same ol' crap others say, then I can't care, either. This site is for professionals and you are not acting very professional. Nobody cares if you're a newbie or not. It helps, but only if you wanna keep you and your business professional. Outbursts and calling people names isn't a good idea.

Another thing, please try not to put words in my mouth and make things up about what you think or perceived me to say. Either get it straight or keep your piehole shut.

Now, suddenly, when someone else says you'll get sued if ya put it up, your ears perk up...... but you said you don't hafta worry. So, which is it ??

Dbee, ya might need to stay focused and think about what you wanna say. If ya don't like answers, ignore them, but childish outbursts and name calling is not gonna get ya anywhere.

This place is no place for emotions like you're displaying over being legal or not.

It's the way you come off. The way others answered such as I'd avoid or this would be the more correct step is more helpful instead of belittling someone for trying to learn and ask questions and saying you're nuts lady you can't even load a photo to a forum. Nothing about your messages are "professional" good try though.

 

[Dbeeson07]

I can assure Gino that there do indeed exist places with no sign codes whatsoever. There are plenty of them around where we are. Codes or not, you still have to hang signs right and make them right.

Since we can't see the structure you are proposing to hang the sign from, I cannot comment on that. But for a free swinging sign of that size I can comment. The best material of what's available is probably Lusterboard. The weight of the plywood does help with the swinging in the wind. You definitely want to get the edge cap and silicone it onto the sign when you finish. It's a little tricky when you have wrapped the sign with printed vinyl to the edge, as it's easy to push the vinyl off the board when you fit the edging. If you're shopping at N. Glantz they have the hanger you will need to use. https://www.nglantz.com/2231912/Product/Glantz_Preferred_Supplier_YMPH1S

Here's a picture of a sign we put up in 2009 using Lusterboard and those hangers. It's still up today, and the board is still solid with no rot. Your sign won't last as long because of the digital print, but the board and hanger concept is solid.

View attachment 161902

Thank you for the input! I'm leaning more towards what another user suggested of making a sign face and letting them install it however they wish or probably passing on this one. Most of my "sign" jobs have been requested of the vinyl only to mount theirselves or on a sign blank and they attach to their fence or shop however they please. Personally large signs aren't what I'm wanting to get in the field of because there's so much better options out there than what I can provide. I was just trying to help out a local repeat customer and wanted to know what way someone would go if given the opportunity with the skills and knowledge I have. Thank you!

 

[Dbeeson07]

I would definitely get some insurance. If you are going to be lettering racecars then that will expand to other vehicles and it's super easy to accidently scratch a vehicle. Insurance is very reasonable for this trade if you are just a small shop. It should include garage keepers as well if you are lettering on your property.

My town is very laid back with signage permits so I'm not overly surprised if they don't require it...or are just too lazy to go through the work. Another option would be to hire the installation out to a local contractor. They typically have insurance and a good idea of what might work and what will not. It's a good idea to start making relationships with these kinds of businesses as you may find yourself needing them in the future and often working with them on certain new construction projects.

I like your idea of hiring out a contractor to hang if I decide to take the job. Thank you for the input! The dirt track cars are my main goal and is the whole reason I spent the money on the machine. I've been holding off on insurance and advertised until I'm more comfortable doing the wraps. I've been practicing on family and friends race cars. These things get wrecked, tore up and scratched every Saturday night and they are asking for a reprint that following Monday. Thank you for the input!

 

[Gino]

Ya know dbee, there are many things in life which will disappoint you and if this is one of them, I feel sorry for you. My first post to you was very helpful, but you decided to pooh-pooh it. So please, show me where I belittled you on post#3 ?? Not until you said some dumb things did I tell you straight forward, which evidently is too harsh for you, but you went there first.

However, you can call me names, tell me my messages are non professional and like the exact same thing I said from someone else, but then it's alright. You just don't make any sense. You're not focused. You don't hafta do anything I say and please don't, but you're taking advice from people who are literally telling you to go against the law and take your chances by passing the buck. How foolish is that ??

Anyway, did ya figure out how to help yourself by loading a picture. And don't think these comments are aimed towards you. If it were your husband, any other member or whomever, they all get treated the same when they can't get outta their own silliness.

Good luck.



edit: and uncleben......... I believe you, but don't think it's true. There are laws on the books everywhere. Like DL said, once someone decides to enforce them is when the sh!t hits the fan and everyone starts griping about these old laws. Then, they have a meeting and start updating the old codes and now it really gets messy.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I can assure Gino that there do indeed exist places with no sign codes whatsoever. There are plenty of them around where we are. Codes or not, you still have to hang signs right and make them right.

Since we can't see the structure you are proposing to hang the sign from, I cannot comment on that. But for a free swinging sign of that size I can comment. The best material of what's available is probably Lusterboard. The weight of the plywood does help with the swinging in the wind. You definitely want to get the edge cap and silicone it onto the sign when you finish. It's a little tricky when you have wrapped the sign with printed vinyl to the edge, as it's easy to push the vinyl off the board when you fit the edging. If you're shopping at N. Glantz they have the hanger you will need to use. https://www.nglantz.com/2231912/Product/Glantz_Preferred_Supplier_YMPH1S

Here's a picture of a sign we put up in 2009 using Lusterboard and those hangers. It's still up today, and the board is still solid with no rot. Your sign won't last as long because of the digital print, but the board and hanger concept is solid.

View attachment 161902

Why hang it when you have 2 posts that you could solidly mount it to?

 

[Gino]

If you are the owner of a sign-making company, and if you would like to maintain a listening culture in your company, then let’s begin a conversation.
Robert@ListenSharp.com

Here ya go dbee. Try this on for size and see if it helps ya.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I can assure Gino that there do indeed exist places with no sign codes whatsoever. There are plenty of them around where we are. Codes or not, you still have to hang signs right and make them right.

Since we can't see the structure you are proposing to hang the sign from, I cannot comment on that. But for a free swinging sign of that size I can comment. The best material of what's available is probably Lusterboard. The weight of the plywood does help with the swinging in the wind. You definitely want to get the edge cap and silicone it onto the sign when you finish. It's a little tricky when you have wrapped the sign with printed vinyl to the edge, as it's easy to push the vinyl off the board when you fit the edging. If you're shopping at N. Glantz they have the hanger you will need to use. https://www.nglantz.com/2231912/Product/Glantz_Preferred_Supplier_YMPH1S

Here's a picture of a sign we put up in 2009 using Lusterboard and those hangers. It's still up today, and the board is still solid with no rot. Your sign won't last as long because of the digital print, but the board and hanger concept is solid.

View attachment 161902

My problem with Lustreboard is with the factory finish failing after a few years. If you paint the boards or cover them with a vinyl print they work okay (still wood, water will eventually find its way in through the edge trim or, especially, the holes where the clips are attached).
I've used those clips on numerous occasions for smaller signs, but my AHJ won't allow them anymore. They don't like swinging signs in general (too many failures over the years - people putting screw eyes into the edge, etc.). If they do allow a swinging sign, it needs to be engineered with a steel frame and rated fasteners. A well enginnered swinging sign will put less stress on the bracket and anchor system.

 

[Johnny Best]

Sorry to hear about your baby's condition. Hopefully, he'll grow out of it.

Who's putting up the sign ??

In most places, you need to start over with the permits, engineer drawings and codes when changing the location of an existing sign and not putting the same thing back up there. You're changing the integrity of the sign and it's structure. Also, do you have insurance to do all of this ??

Post #3 Gino you started to tell her all the negitive things about putting up her sign. She is looking for positive views on this new venture she is on, not someone throwing road blocks up for her.
I am sure if Gino and I were coming home from partying and its 3am and I come to a red light in the middle of nowhere and I pull forward, look both ways and proceed through the red light. Gino would start on his tirade on breaking the law and I could get a ticket. I politely turn towards him and tell him "to shut the fu$k up". Laws and permits ate made to protect us. The red light at the intersection is placed to protect us from just rolling through at the same time as someone else. If I feel a sign is nice looking and installed right I will not pull a permit. Cities establish permit offices because of the nasty looking signs and poor workmanship and to protect the business owners and citizens from blight and accidents.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Some places make it damn near impossible to follow the rules too, like south Florida. Sometimes permits and trying to do things the right way will open the biggest can of worms you've ever seen. It's not apples to apples. Licensing is also great but when the license holders "rent" their license to any swinging dick because they're impossible to get, what good are they?

 

[Johnny Best]

If your going fishing or mulching, sometimes a can of worms can come in handy. You just have to know how to open up the can.

 

[Gino]

Post #3 Gino you started to tell her all the negitive things about putting up her sign. She is looking for positive views on this new venture she is on, not someone throwing road blocks up for her.
I am sure if Gino and I were coming home from partying and its 3am and I come to a red light in the middle of nowhere and I pull forward, look both ways and proceed through the red light. Gino would start on his tirade on breaking the law and I could get a ticket. I politely turn towards him and tell him "to shut the fu$k up". Laws and permits ate made to protect us. The red light at the intersection is placed to protect us from just rolling through at the same time as someone else. If I feel a sign is nice looking and installed right I will not pull a permit. Cities establish permit offices because of the nasty looking signs and poor workmanship and to protect the business owners and citizens from blight and accidents.

Nope, you missed the point(s), also. Those are not negatives. To be aware of things one evidently doesn't know jack about, what you call road blocks, I call cautionary signs to read and know before an accident can happen.

That trip home after partying isn't quite accurate, either. I'd be driving your a$$ around and coming to a complete stop at the light. As you woke up to see why we stopped, I'd tell ya, don't worry Johnny, this light will only take a minute. Go back to sleep.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Last year I subbed out a face replacement on a cabinet that was part of a huge hi-rise pylon sign. The installers said we didn't need one for a face change...which is believable. Come to find out, ya need one and what they did was throw the whole 120' sign out of compliance and it was grandfathered in. We weren't the main ID, but a secondary cabinet and the main tenant was pissed. The city threatened to have the whole sign removed. Client got their lawyer involved and saved the sign, but that was wakeup call... The consequences can be big. Now, most of the time..no one will catch it, and if they do it's usually a slap on the wrist, but you're gambling.

 

[Johnny Best]

Tex your story is linked to “to many cooks ruin the soup”. There is something you are not telling us why it got the attention of permit office.

The girl has and old gas station pole out in the boonies that she was asked to put a sign on. The last sign on there was “last chance for gas for next 400 miles”.

 

[Moze]

I've posted this before.....my initial foray into the sign industry was compiling very detailed sign ordinance summaries for customers in municipalities all over the country. There are numerous places that truly have absolutely no sign ordinances, no restrictions and no permit requirements. You can literally do whatever you want on your property. So when the OP says they have none of that, I don't doubt it.

That being said, OP, by all means, make the sign. Do NOT install it. Let them figure out EVERYTHING related to installing, including hardware, holes in the sign, etc. Hand them the panel and walk away. The minimal income you'd make from installing isn't worth any potential liability due to inexperience and lack of knowledge on your part. Without the necessary insurance, knowledge and experience, you have no business installing something that could ultimately hurt or kill someone if done incorrectly.

 

[Gino]

I'm sure there are pockets of 'no laws allowed' on the books, but while you say on private property, this sign that the OP is asking about does not fit that criteria.

Remember, she said it's a gas station/diner setup. There are gonna be food restriction laws as for inspections, seating capacities, parking restrictions, gas pump readings, and all kinds of other things needed in order to run a business..... anywhere in the US of A. Not to mention, licenses to run both a diner and a gas station.

That being said, as what you and many others here have said, you simply cannot make a sign and have someone else put up a sign, if it doesn't fit the areas codes/restrictions, unless you are on your OWN property 25 miles from the main road. This doesn't sound like a hillbilly general store in deliverance.

With the OP's inability to upload the picture, I presume by now, she could've done it, but has now chosen not to, so we don't see the entire picture of what's going on.

 

[Moze]

I didn't say "private property", I said in some areas "You can literally do whatever you want on your property.". That is just fact in some areas. Some municipalities have absolutely no restrictions or permit process for signs. One that sticks in my mind was a gas station in Louisiana. The sign company I worked for was pricing out a complete sign package including a pylon sign that could be seen from the freeway overpass. I called the town to get the sign ordinance info and was told they didn't have one. I asked what the restrictions were and the guy literally said there were none and to check with the parish. I called the parish and they said they have nothing to do with it and it was up to the town. That was a job I kept tabs on throughout the duration due to the fact that they wanted such a large sign and I was told that there were no restrictions or permits. They wound up installing something like a 100' pylon sign that could be seen from the highway overpass, wall cabinets, etc. There were no permits pulled.

At some point, I tallied it up and I had compiled sign ordinance summaries for somewhere around 1400 individual municipalities across the Country. The lack of a sign ordinance or some body of oversight or enforcement regarding signs is rare, but it definitely exists. If the OP is in the middle of nowhere in Texas, I can easily see this being the case.

 

[Johnny Best]

She said she has a child. That is a 24/7 job. She just came on to ask and tell us about her business. I do not think she found what she was looking for. I said a prayer for her child.

 

[jimbug72]

Moze is right. Make the sign, let them handle the rest. If they can't accept that, pass on this job because you're not ready for it. You need insurance before you start installing anything, (besides your racing wraps for your buddies.) I believe you when you say permits are not required in your area. Gino was also not wrong in suggesting that if you are going to install it, get it in writing from someone in charge that you don't need to pull permits, just to cover your butt.

All of that being said, I'd be worried about the mounting holes in Alumalite tearing out in a a strong breeze. That material has a fairly soft tensile strength. Lusterboard would work, but I would opt for MDO painted and edge sealed. We quit using Lusterboard years ago because in our experience the moister that gets trapped between the aluminum and wood wherever you make mounting holes tends to cause it to rot out faster that painted MDO.

Lastly, don't fight with Gino. You'll never come out on top. He is an old salt that has watched this once noble profession get degraded over the years with the introduction of cheap vinyl, cheap cutters, cheap printers and the internet and he is pretty cranky about it... and rightly so. He can also be extremely helpful and a wealth of information if you're willing to be humble, learn and try to always do things the right way and not cut corners.

Keep your skin thick and your nose to the grind stone and if your truly cut out for this industry, this forum will definitely help you find your place in it.