That is not a logo, that is a sign layout

[Joe Diaz]

I've read several critiques of others' work through out my time on this forum and I've heard this stated a few times: "That is not a logo, that is a sign layout". But never any explanation afterwards on why that is. For the benefit of those who don't know the differences, I thought we could share our ideas of what constitutes a logo.

Is it some sort of panel background shape that makes it a sign layout? Must all logos have that corporate look to be considered a logo? Or is the difference between a sign layout or a logo strictly related to the information used in the design.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Graphics2u]

That's tough to define. A logo could be a sign layout.

 

[signgal]

:U Rock:

 

[Gino]

Good one Joe.................

I believe a good logo is one of three basic concepts.

1. Geometric shape
2. Graphics
3. Words

This is a simple way of putting it, however one can mix two of these basic elements together, but in the end, the finished product should quickly represent you or your company in a fashion that is pleasing to all that will view it.

Color also plays an important role in instant recognition. Proper colors can make or brake a good design.

I also believe that with today’s internet and mindset of having something instantly…. the idea of what a logo really is…. has changed…. and mostly for the worse. Just look around and many of the logos today mean absolutely nothing for the most part. Cleverness on the designer's part means a lot, but not if only 4 people find it clever. It should be understandable across the globe, so that even a totally different language can get the basic gist of things.

 

[sardocs]

Logo is greek for "word" and in ancient times craftsmen would identify their work with their Word.

 

[GB2]

My quick personal impression would be that a logo is a established standard graphic, comprised of text and/or symbols, for the purpose of identifying an entity. It should be used with consistency in all visual presentations and should immediately convey the identity and purpose of the entity.

A sign layout would be a pleasing arrangement of graphic elements, including or not including a logo. Any entity that does not have a logo but utilizes their name or other non standard identifying elements in a sign would be considered simply a sign layout.

 

[Pat Whatley]

Here you go....

 

[oldgoatroper]

To me, a logo is any graphic composed of symbol(s) and/or type that would satisfy the requirements of a trademark.

A layout would never qualify as a trademark so it could never be considered to be a logo.

 

[SignManiac]

As defined by Wikipedia.

The word lego is an abbreviation for two Danish words leg and godt meaning play well. In 1916, Christiansen purchased a woodworking shop in Billund which had been in business since 1895. He earned his living by constructing houses and furniture for farmers in the region, with the help of a small staff of apprentices. His workshop burned down in 1924 when a fire, lit by two of his young sons, ignited some wood shavings. Undaunted, Ole Kirk took the disaster as an opportunity to construct a larger workshop, and worked towards expanding his business even further; however, the Great Depression would soon have an impact on his livelihood. In finding ways to minimize production costs, Ole Kirk began producing miniature versions of his products as design aids. It was these miniature stepladders and ironing boards that inspired him to begin producing toys

 

[iSign]

hey, this thread reminds me of a post I made just yesterday:

oh, and to the guy 100 posts ago who said layout is not the same as artwork, and neither of them are the same as design... well, they do have different letters in 'em.. and on any different day, speaking to enough people... they do get switched around... but to imply this industry has ONE distinct, non-overlapping definition for each of them... and you happen to know what that is... preposterous!

..which I guess is to say that I don't think there is a universally understood definition... which is not to say I don't think there could be, or should be..

...and I think we are as good a choice as any to do the deciding...

One definition I recognize is what the client asked for & what the invoice says.. GB2 mentioned appropriate use after the sale, & I think we could get far more consistency between us on that topic, but we are often out of the loop by that point, and have little to no control at that point anyway...

Different people want different things for a logo, sometimes ill advised requirements that some of us wouldn't accomodate, and others would... but we've all seen when a nice visual presentation of a company name is done for a sign, and a client who may have just balked at the suggestion of a logo design (& fee) may decide your sign layout is the best looking visual presentation of their company they have ever seen... and will then want to use it like a logo... which could stray into that other arena of artwork rights where I don't think we want to steer this right now... although it does stand at the crossroads between "logo" & "layout" many times...

 

[Dzrt1st]

To me a signs is read. A logo is recognized.

 

[iSign]

To me a signs is read. A logo is recognized.

 

[signmeup]

Hey Pat! That thing you labled a logo....... is an icon.

 

[KetchikanSignpro]

if its a logo it will lack a substrate

 

[Dan Antonelli]

Plenty of panel-based designs make good logos. I think in my books I talk about panel based logos being one of the maybe 6 or so Logo Design Models--

There's plenty of many well known corporate brands using a panel based logo, such as Penzoil, Starbucks, Land Rover, Lipton, etc---

 

[Joe Diaz]

To me a signs is read. A logo is recognized.

True, but a logo can't be recognized until it is read at least once. Right? And, on the flip side, technically a sign can also be recognized after it is read at least once. For example. Do we actually read a stop sign, or do we recognize the red octagon with bold white letters? If a sign consists of just the company's logo, are we then reading it or recognizing it.

I guess I have a few personal rules for logo design, but they certainly aren't set in stone, and there are always exceptions to the rule. For example, One of the very few rules I have is that I don't think phone numbers belong on a logo. you know things like that... but again that is a personal rule. and it is a rule I have broken.

if its a logo it will lack a substrate

I personally would put it this way: A logo can become a sign when it is going to be produced on a sign substrate, but even then it is still a logo. I use the phrase sign substrate, because business card material is a substrate, but I wouldn't consider a business card a sign.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Plenty of panel-based designs make good logos. I think in my books I talk about panel based logos being one of the maybe 6 or so Logo Design Models--

There's plenty of many well known corporate brands using a panel based logo, such as Penzoil, Starbucks, Land Rover, Lipton, etc---

I agree 100%

 

[rjpjr]

logo = IDENTITY
sign = MESSAGE

IMHO...

 

[GAC05]

A (good) logo sticks in your memory after seeing it just a few times and you no longer have to read it.

When "Touchdown Jesus" got hit by a bolt of lightning and burned to the ground - now that....is a sign.

wayne k
guam usa