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Discussion The future of the workforce

Boudica

Back to "educational purposes"
I had a random thought, not really sign related. With wages getting higher and higher, and work ethic gets slacker and slacker (for some, not all)... eventually the wages are going to catch up to really hurt the employers. Eventually things will calm down, and employers might start expecting more for their money - or your fired. Then they can hire someone for less, and things will even out again. I'm mostly thinking about the service industry, and other retail - not necessarily this and other skilled industries.
I really hope this isn't a permanent trend and we are doomed to mediocrity. It's got to turn around, right?
 

Adam Vreeke

Knows just enough to get in a lot of trouble..
I had a thought similar as well for the fight for $15 movement. You started seeing fast food joints offering a $15 hiring wage and I discussed it with my wife and we both had the thought of sure they will hire you at $15 if nothing else just for the show of it. Then in a few months to a years time when everything has settled back down they will find a reason to excuse those employees and then re-hire at a lower starting wage.

But I have also heard that if employees are paid more, and above the average for what other companies are paying for a similar job, people will work and work hard to keep that job and the wages, because they know if they get fired and want to continue in that field of work, then they are getting a wage cut of 50% or whatever, actually putting the power back into the CEO's hands. Because if they continue to hire at that higher wage, they will most likely have a line out the door of people applying.
 

rjssigns

Active Member
Some ill informed folks think a $15 an hour wage will cure everything. It won't and will only make things worse. Prices of the most basic goods and services will rise.
Another aspect that people ignore is what happens when you have, for example a certified welder making 20 bucks an hour. You think they're not going to want more money?
What I'm driving at is the skilled folks will demand a commensurate pay increase and the "gap" will remain constant.

What about the layoffs that are sure to happen when employers can't afford to pay all their workers?
And just like inflation, as the price of goods and services rise buyers will consume less, leading to decreased production necessitating a smaller workforce.

It doesn't take a PhD in economics to figure this out.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Have you stopped in at a Home Depot, large grocery chain, fast food place or a retail store lately ?? What kinda service have you gotten ?? crickets. Right, No one........ no one wants to work for old wages, new wages or at all. The lip, intelligence or helpfulness at almost any given place is pathetic. No one can do a thing without scanning it in on their phones, then they're wrong when ya get to that aisle. Not to mention, most of them don't speak a form of recognizable English.
 

Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
Part of the problem is they pay the hard workers and slackers almost the same. I managed a Papa John's for $8.25 per hour and the people I managed got $7.25. One of those $7.25 per hour workers would literally lay on the floor and I would have to say, "Get off the floor and make pizzas." When I left, the district manager asked, "What will it take to keep you around?" I said, "$10 per hour." He said, "Oh no anything but that." There are a lot of lazy people who just don't want to work for sure but I think a lot of the push for a higher wage is people just wanting to be valued properly and not short changed at every chance their employer can get.
 

Gene@mpls

New Member
If you can't afford to move out of your parents basement- why work? We look at things differently from the workers... our job is to motivate them and still have a productive business. That is why we get the big bucks.
 

Scotchbrite

No comment
I've given up on expecting good service from anywhere. If I can, I use the internet and apps to figure out want I need and where it is in the store before I even go there. Like if it's an auto parts store, I look up the part on the internet, print it out, and just hand it to the guy at the counter.

We have 8 people working in our shop, 3 are owners/employees (we're chapter S corporation). There are 3 employees that make several dollars per hour more than us owners and the other 2 are not making much less than the owners. Luckily we have great retention, 1 has been here 18 years and another for nearly 14 years. This past year we did the biggest raises we've ever done taking everyone up by nearly 10%.

In the past I've always felt pretty good about our wages. The feedback I was getting is that people wanted to work fewer hours if possible even though they were hourly and it meant their paychecks would be a little smaller. Hell I had one guy lose a paycheck and he didn't even know it until our bookkeeper noticed the check never cleared the bank. I figured that was good indication they were happy with how much they were making. However this year I definitely got some feedback on employees being a little freaked out about how they were feeling a lot more pressed for money which is why we did the bigger raises. Now I admit I'm a little more nervous about the economy taking a dive, because that will make the payroll a much bigger issue.

What worries me more than wages is the age of our workforce. We've got 1 employee just a few years from 70, 2 others over 50, 3 over 40 (not far from 50), and 1 in mid30s. I also left out 1 owner over 70 that still works a few hours a day. In the next 3 to 5 years, we're really going to be trouble. We just don't get younger people applying, except for the design/computer positions which is where our youngest employee works. We've tried tapping into the high school group when they have job fairs. We've hired a couple, but they all have "bigger" plans to be diesel mechanics and electrical engineers. They were good workers, but the sign industry just didn't hold their interest.

Dealing with an older workforce that still has to work outside doing manual labor has some challenges and upsides. They do great work and generally take good care of the equipment and customers. We do have to be more mindful of the work conditions. Heat and cold get to them sooner, and they typically require more recovery time. It means we have to be careful with our lead times and work load. I'm also more lenient about day off requests due to that need for recovery. It works well for keeping happy employees, but sometimes it can mean having to smooth things over with the customers a little more frequently. But it still amazes me when a customer calls and asks why we're not there installing the sign when it's 15° out and the wind is blowing. I guess the weather seems pretty good when they're sitting inside their nicely heated office. They always seem to forget the last part of "we'll be there next Thursday as long as the weather is good enough".

As far as the higher wages for what has generally been considered entry level positions, I think it tends to be a bit of a shell game. What I've seen is that most of those places will just offer less hours and thin out the number of people on shift. The end product is employees still won't be making a lot more money for any single job because they'll be working fewer hours. On top of that, paying the entry level workers a bunch more money is just going raise the cost of the basic items we all need including those same people demanding higher wages.

I also think a lot of us are paying the price of crappy managers and bad companies. They've created a lot of ill will towards all employers regardless that many companies don't treat their employees poorly. It's driven a lot of people to figure out how to make a living without being a typical employee. And unfortunately it's the good ones that you'd like to hire that are the best at being able to work for themselves.

Sorry for the long post, but I could go on for even longer..... Haha
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Unpopular opinion here but for many people, when they make more than they need to live or are accustomed to, they take their foot off the gas because the motivation to earn more is not there. It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Once basic needs are met, priorities shift.
As far as the minimum wage goes, it's really irrelevant when the labor market is tight. A larger problem (for them) with places like fast food restaurants isn't the wages, it's the companies not giving enough hours and stretching short shifts across the entire week. That ties people's hands that would otherwise get a second job. They overstaff in order to have a bunch of backups and that is now starting to bite them. Too many people believe that if McDonalds pays 15/hr then they will have to pay more which is not the case. Who wants to work there? I have laborers and pay less than construction by quite a bit but they don't want to dig ditches or work up on a roof all day. They can also count on working 5 days 40 hours and not be sent home if it rains.
 

weyandsign

New Member
Another problem is that a 15 year old car with 100K miles costs 6-8K. And affordable apartments are also very hard to find.
 

Scotchbrite

No comment
Another problem we have is being near a metro area with much higher wages due to higher cost of living. So people buy a cheaper house here and drive an hour to make better money there. Median household income of $57,586 vs $68,592. Where a median home value is $390,600 vs $247,700.

We've gotten lucky and hired a couple of really good employees because they figured out the lack of a commute offset the lower wages.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
There was a time, I refused to go to the self-pay lines and not use that sorta thing. I figured if we got to using those machines all the time, we'd be putting people outta jobs. Well, ya can hardly go anywhere without using them. They don't go on break, no vacations, no sick or maternity leave, only weekly maintenance. Now, ya order food with them, pay with them at all kindsa places. They even have those machines that wonder around the stores cleaning. They're even at the hospitals. They try not to run into you, but ya hafta be careful sometimes..... they're not to spry.
 

ProSignTN

New Member
Automation is coming faster than we think. a grand total of three employees run my local Speedway at any given time. Twenty four gas pumps and a deli. Pay at the pump, order food at the kiosk, pay at the kiosk.. During slow times the three clean the glass, the restrooms and mop the floors.

I have a good relationship with a metal and machine shop owner whose son does awnings in the back side of the complex. We work on projects together, I letter for them, or they build anything steel I need. They have machines (lathes, mills, waterjet, etc.) that output dozens of parts and pieces compared to what a Master Machinist could produce just a few years ago. Kind of like going from the brush, to the plotter, to the printer.
 

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Automation is coming faster than we think. a grand total of three employees run my local Speedway at any given time. Twenty four gas pumps and a deli. Pay at the pump, order food at the kiosk, pay at the kiosk.. During slow times the three clean the glass, the restrooms and mop the floors.

I have a good relationship with a metal and machine shop owner whose son does awnings in the back side of the complex. We work on projects together, I letter for them, or they build anything steel I need. They have machines (lathes, mills, waterjet, etc.) that output dozens of parts and pieces compared to what a Master Machinist could produce just a few years ago. Kind of like going from the brush, to the plotter, to the printer.
Then you go to New Jersey and they pump your gas for you. Job loss isn't exactly new and that is case in point.
 
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