daenterpri
New Member
Using Gerber 220 Vinyl, and their foils, with an Edge 2 printer, how long should a decal last outdoors made with this setup?
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Thermal Printing Outdoor Life
- Thread starter daenterpri
- Start date
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Estimated life depends on the color of foils used as well as the sun exposure. Some colors last longer than others. Southern and western exposures will also have a shorter life. Abrasion can also be an issue. Never let a detailer polish up a print. They will fade within a week or two once the surface is broken. Excepting spot pink (2 year rated) and foils not rated for outdoor use, foil prints will last 3 to 5 years under normal conditions and will last an extra 12 to 18 months if overprinted with clear UV/Abrasion Guard.
You should be aware that these are comparative and estimated ratings. They are not something you can guarantee once the prints leave your control.
You should be aware that these are comparative and estimated ratings. They are not something you can guarantee once the prints leave your control.
daenterpri
New Member
Gotcha. I appreciate that!
Have you tried ZeroNine's Flipside vinyl? They give it a 7 year outdoor durability. http://www.zeronine.com/flipside.html
It's way less expensive than Gerber's 220 3M, and they will custom print the back for you.
What do you think?
Have you tried ZeroNine's Flipside vinyl? They give it a 7 year outdoor durability. http://www.zeronine.com/flipside.html
It's way less expensive than Gerber's 220 3M, and they will custom print the back for you.
What do you think?
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
No, I discontinued any dealings with ZeroNine more than five years ago.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
It's kinda hard to warranty anything that is not factory speced out for your particular machine. Zero-Nine can give you a 20 year guarantee, but that won't mean a thing if you don't print it on a Zero-Nine printer.
You're not saving any money in the long run by using after market products in most of these machines. You're only fooling yourself. If something costs you $10...... you pass that along to the customer. If you find a savings.... are you going to lower your price by a few pennies ?? I seriously doubt it. As for that personalized backing ?? What on earth for ?? Do you sell that many RTG's ?? Seriously, if you think someone is going to remember you because of what was on the back of a sticker from 5 or 7 years ago.... you're only fooling yourself. They'll remember a good deal and service..... long before they remember what was on the backside of some vinyl.
Now, if you think you're going to save based upon volume..... again, I doubt it or you'd move up to a larger production machine and keep your gerber for doing the smaller things.
You're not saving any money in the long run by using after market products in most of these machines. You're only fooling yourself. If something costs you $10...... you pass that along to the customer. If you find a savings.... are you going to lower your price by a few pennies ?? I seriously doubt it. As for that personalized backing ?? What on earth for ?? Do you sell that many RTG's ?? Seriously, if you think someone is going to remember you because of what was on the back of a sticker from 5 or 7 years ago.... you're only fooling yourself. They'll remember a good deal and service..... long before they remember what was on the backside of some vinyl.
Now, if you think you're going to save based upon volume..... again, I doubt it or you'd move up to a larger production machine and keep your gerber for doing the smaller things.
daenterpri
New Member
Just curious. Ya, I could care less about the customized backing, but it would really impress some of my higher volume clients if I was able to put their logo's and instructions on the back of their stickers.
But if the quality is not there then I won't bother.
But if the quality is not there then I won't bother.
daenterpri
New Member
Do you guys normally put UV/Abrasion guard on your thermal products? Or only for special occasion?
The people I bought the Edge setup from, said they only used UV/Abrasion on outdoor applications where the sticker would come in contact with gasoline, like on a gas powered RC car. But for most applications they just left it stock and said it held up fine.
The people I bought the Edge setup from, said they only used UV/Abrasion on outdoor applications where the sticker would come in contact with gasoline, like on a gas powered RC car. But for most applications they just left it stock and said it held up fine.
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
I doubt that you will get much of an improvement where gasoline or solvents are concerned. Some improvement if it gets abraded regularly. We do some labels for a guy that makes polo mallets ... so he definitely needs abrasion protection. Where you will see a primary use is for sun fade protection which may not be as much of an issue for you as it is here in Florida.
We had a set of three color stripes we did for a client that were applied to her windows. These were printed on 220 ScotchCal with Gerber foils and no UV Guard. They started under an awning with an eastern exposure and continued around a corner for a full southern exposure and no awnings. After only 16 months the southern exposure had turned to pure white while the southeast corner was half faded and those under the awning were good as new.
We redid the faded ones using Apex/Duraguard UV/Abrasion Guard overprint and after five years they still look decent.
We pay about 33¢ a foot for the UV/Abrasion Guard and consider it an automatic for any outdoor Edge prints we produce.
We had a set of three color stripes we did for a client that were applied to her windows. These were printed on 220 ScotchCal with Gerber foils and no UV Guard. They started under an awning with an eastern exposure and continued around a corner for a full southern exposure and no awnings. After only 16 months the southern exposure had turned to pure white while the southeast corner was half faded and those under the awning were good as new.
We redid the faded ones using Apex/Duraguard UV/Abrasion Guard overprint and after five years they still look decent.
We pay about 33¢ a foot for the UV/Abrasion Guard and consider it an automatic for any outdoor Edge prints we produce.
daenterpri
New Member
Hmmm, we produce small decals for automotive that go all over the country. Most of which probably end up on a back window and probably aren't sitting directly in the sun. Knowing this, would you still do UV guard?
Also, do you just create a layer over everything in Composer as your UV guard? And just run it through using the overlap feature?
Out here, we have long winters so that's probably why the sign shops don't bother using UV guard on the Edge print.
Thanks for your help!
Also, do you just create a layer over everything in Composer as your UV guard? And just run it through using the overlap feature?
Out here, we have long winters so that's probably why the sign shops don't bother using UV guard on the Edge print.
Thanks for your help!
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Seems like you answered your own question. If you're shipping all over the country then you have no idea most of the time about the climate it will be exposed to. There are also issues with ice and grit where the abrasion guard will add to the life of the decal.
To clarify where I'm coming from ... I started my business in 1983 and have been Edge printing since 1998. I cater to customers who want to deal with me and make very little effort to be price competitive. Instead I make as good a product as I can and which is usually better than the client expects. I charge a price that makes it worth my time and value my time at a far higher price than I value materials.
Application of the UV is normally setup in the 123 dialog of GSPPlot by clicking the Backing/Finish button and then selecting the type of application you want. My usual choice is Print Shapes but that varies with the job.
daenterpri
New Member
I appreciate that Fred 
On my way to go pick up some UV guard.
Andy
On my way to go pick up some UV guard.Andy
Malkin
New Member
I had that spot pink fade out in only 6 months, but like Fred said, most colors are good for 3-5 years. We put a UV on everything that is intended for long term.
I have had pretty good luck using ZeroNine's NexGen foils, they seem to last longer than the corresponding Gerber foils, and they are solvent resistant as well.
I have had pretty good luck using ZeroNine's NexGen foils, they seem to last longer than the corresponding Gerber foils, and they are solvent resistant as well.