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They just dont make good stuff anymore....

Baz

New Member
The chinese make crap because crap is what's being ordered. It was just said a few comments above. Retailers dictate what they are willing to pay.
You can get some good quality stuff from china. But you have to pay for the difference.
 

zillion29

New Member
I'm still waiting for all those savings that buying into globalism was supposed to reap for consumers.
Just imagine walking through Lowe's or Home Depot and what the cost of every item on those shelves would be if they were made by people paid 15x more just for the satisfaction of a little American flag on the item.
 

TimToad

Active Member
Just imagine walking through Lowe's or Home Depot and what the cost of every item on those shelves would be if they were made by people paid 15x more just for the satisfaction of a little American flag on the item.

No denying that most products on the shelves of certain stores are cheaper, but OVERALL the cost of living and inflation on everything else didn't suddenly stop rising once much of our manufacturing base left the country.

Great, a person who struggles working two jobs to pay the rent on a studio apartment can now buy a set of power tools for less. But the wood, screws, brackets, etc. they need from the same outlet for a shelving unit costs more than before. If they cut off a finger while cutting a board, the out of pocket costs to have it reattached will bankrupt them.

The food they hoped to store on that shelving unit costs way more as do the utilities to cook it.

What hasn't come down is the gap in the wages and wealth accumulation between that average income consumer and the upper classes who own the various conglomerates that make nearly everything.
 

equippaint

Active Member
Just imagine walking through Lowe's or Home Depot and what the cost of every item on those shelves would be if they were made by people paid 15x more just for the satisfaction of a little American flag on the item.
Its more than getting a “little sticker”. Basic economics would sort it out. These things can be made here for a profit and sold for a competitive price even with higher labor costs.
Greed and laziness took manufacturing overseas. It wasnt about being competitive, its always been about making more money and doing less for it. Theres no factory to manage and employees to deal with. If I was a ceo, id much rather run that company than one with massive manufacturing infrastructure. Its easier.
Its similar to using wholesalers all of the time. Thats all china is, a massive wholesaler. In time, that wholesaler will sell direct or something else will happen and it bites you in the butt.
 

Baz

New Member
Insane executive salaries and bonuses and stockholders demanding constant growth is what's pushing consumers like us closer and closer to the braking point.
 

JTBoh

I sell signage and signage accessories.
For you Audiophiles:
Buddy of mine has a Neumann VMS-66 record lathe and still cuts masters and dubs on it for people.
 

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TimToad

Active Member
Its more than getting a “little sticker”. Basic economics would sort it out. These things can be made here for a profit and sold for a competitive price even with higher labor costs.
Greed and laziness took manufacturing overseas. It wasnt about being competitive, its always been about making more money and doing less for it. Theres no factory to manage and employees to deal with. If I was a ceo, id much rather run that company than one with massive manufacturing infrastructure. Its easier.
Its similar to using wholesalers all of the time. Thats all china is, a massive wholesaler. In time, that wholesaler will sell direct or something else will happen and it bites you in the butt.

I keep wondering if and when folks discussing topics like this will include the social impacts of such an industrial and economic model both here at home and in the "wholesaler" countries we now exploit for cheap labor and natural resources.

Maybe that discussion will begin once we're up to our necks in the mountains of trash and recyclable materials we generate that used to get sent out of sight and out of mind. Or perhaps we'll take a hint from our friends in Switzerland.

https://www.independent.co.uk/envir...-country-has-run-out-of-rubbish-a7462976.html

Here we are five years after the discovery of the deep water contamination of Flint, MI a formerly and mostly middle class, manufacturing hub where folks took great pride in what they built every day and could afford to buy what they built. Now they are still being poisoned even after the plants have been shuttered, the profits have been enjoyed and their community has become a very typical example of U.S. Rust Belt blight.
 

TimToad

Active Member
Now, I may be mistaken, but wasn't the Flint crisis caused by corner cutting bureaucrats declining to treat the water to prevent the lead pipes from leaching into the water. The lead that has contaminated the water is just the lead in the supply lines.

And why would a city that only a decade or two earlier was a bustling, dynamic home of well paid, proud, autoworkers and one of the gems of GM's manufacturing base be so broke that not only could it not replace the aging water supply lines in town but also be forced to cut the budget jeopardize the health and welfare of its citizens?

Our brand of capitalism creates winners and losers and the once proud residents of Flint were turned into losers through no fault of their own.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
And why would a city that only a decade or two earlier was a bustling, dynamic home of well paid, proud, autoworkers and one of the gems of GM's manufacturing base be so broke that not only could it not replace the aging water supply lines in town but also be forced to cut the budget jeopardize the health and welfare of its citizens?

Our brand of capitalism creates winners and losers and the once proud residents of Flint were turned into losers through no fault of their own.

:softwareAhh..... toad, you better read up on your facts and understand them, before you just regurgitate your left-winged baloney.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Flint changed where they were getting their water and were not pretreating it properly and it leeched the lead out of the pipes into the water. Once lead gets into your system it never leaves, if I remember right it can be past on to your children.
I use a 5 stage reverse osmosis system in my house for water.
And Detroit, like Buffalo, had union workers who demanded higher pay and benefits so steel companies and auto makers started to move their business for less paid workers. I am sure those proud residents of Flint now live on the west coast of Florida collecting SS and retirement checks and the residents left there do not have great jobs and live there because housing is cheap.
Do not think a form of government being capitalist or socialist, makes a difference, there are people with greed and doing things bad to their fellow man like lead in the water.
 

TimToad

Active Member
The problem is, no one wants to pay for quality anymore.
I disagree. I think most consumers want the best product their money can buy and take it for granted that manufacturers are giving it.

The reality though is quite different. At every stage of a product's life, you have pressures from the top being applied to maximize profit and shareholder return while minimizing costs, including and especially labor costs.

It boggles the mind in an economy that is 2/3rds driven by consumer spending that we'd be in the 40th year of an experiment in supply side economics that has proven itself incredibly advantageous for the top 1% but an abysmal failure for the 99% below.

We all know why we can't have nice things and if truly honest with ourselves, we all know how to make it so we can.
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
I always buy Nikon lens over Tamron because I feel the build quality is better and Nikon lens cost a lot more.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
I disagree. I think most consumers want the best product their money can buy and take it for granted that manufacturers are giving it.

The reality though is quite different. At every stage of a product's life, you have pressures from the top being applied to maximize profit and shareholder return while minimizing costs, including and especially labor costs.

It boggles the mind in an economy that is 2/3rds driven by consumer spending that we'd be in the 40th year of an experiment in supply side economics that has proven itself incredibly advantageous for the top 1% but an abysmal failure for the 99% below.

We all know why we can't have nice things and if truly honest with ourselves, we all know how to make it so we can.

That still falls in the category "no one wants to pay for quality"
consumer wants best bang for buck, which is usually mid range stuff. and that is usually crap that gets manufactured in china.
Don't get me wrong, china is capable of manufacturing some very high quality stuff, but consumer wont pay, consumer will get cheap and nasty.

For example, air compressors.
Kaeser would be the only one i buy. Has never let us down. They manufacture their own stuff. not the cheapest. Hence paying for quality.

I always buy Nikon lens over Tamron because I feel the build quality is better and Nikon lens cost a lot more.

Is that because you have nikon body?
Nikon have very good lenses.
I have always preferred to buy the lens the same brand as the body.
i won't hesitate to buy sigma though.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
That still falls in the category "no one wants to pay for quality"
consumer wants best bang for buck, which is usually mid range stuff.

That depends. Getting best bang for your buck for the product that you are wanting could mean your still getting quality, but maybe getting it from vendor A instead of vendor B that's more expensive. Or getting it when vendor A is running a sale etc. That would also, in my mind, constitute "best bang for your buck". That's assuming everything else is equal (warranty/support etc).

Now, it still may be relative more expensive then the others, not saying that it isn't, but compared to itself, it may be a better buy "here" versus "there". Which would lead me to think, "better bang for my buck".
 
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