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This Is Why!

Discussion in 'Vehicle Wraps' started by Kentucky Wraps, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    So after reading all the reasons 3M and Avery are NOT being used by some of you guys, and hearing all the rage about Orajet's 3751 RA, I decided, I'd give them another shot, against my better judgement from having experienced this in the past. I ordered a 150' wrap kit of it. I let it cure for 24 hours in our curing station with air flowing etc before laminated it and installing. I noticed it was a little grabby, but seemed to snap off without too much trouble. Then I went to pull up the front area and back area around the lights etc and low and behold...adhesive separated from the vinyl and stuck to the car. Politics aside, I have to stay away from Orajet. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I should have known better. Do any of you Orajet users ever pull vinyl up and have this happen, or does Orajet hate me?
    And NO I didn't use any primer on this job. There was no need.:banghead:
     

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  2. ProWraps

    ProWraps Very Active Member

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    arlon used to do the EXACT same thing. especially in the cold. whats weird is they both have the EXACT air release pattern.
     
  3. MikePro

    MikePro Major Contributor

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    ouch!
     
  4. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Yeah I tried Arlon once as well. That didn't happen to me..but it was way too grabby for me to wanna deal with. I just gotta stick with Avery & 3M I guess.
     
  5. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    We had the EXACT same thing happen on several rolls of 3751RA earlier this year. Oracal replaced the material but it didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy regardless. We've used some since then and haven't seen the issue since, but if this was recent for you I don't think it was an isolated incident a year ago.

    Interestingly, when this happened to us, it stuck and pulled off like that with zero pressure at all. We just tacked a piece up to hold it in place temporarily, but did not squeegee it. I've seen it do this on paint as well as glass.
     
  6. WYLDGFI

    WYLDGFI Active Member

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    We had that happen with Arlon and Mactac. Ive only used those 2 brands on occasion for spot graphics and such rather than full wraps.
     
  7. Border

    Border Very Active Member

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    Also seems like this would make it a real pain to remove a wrap with all that adhesive left behind.
    Is this common for that material? I've been wanting to try it but the thought of possibly ruining a huge print (such as printing/installing a car wrap in one piece per side) makes me reluctant. What about bumpers and stuff where you frequently have to snap it back up and reposition?
     
  8. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    Pat, when it happened to us our Fellers/Oracal reps said they thought it was isolated. We sent material samples off to Oracal for testing but I never heard what happened from there. I remember someone mentioning the material may have shipped out of their plant before the adhesive was fully cured to the face stock, or something to that effect. That explanation makes some sense, when this happens the adhesive removes from the vinyl so cleanly it literally leaves no trace behind on the face stock whatsoever.
     
  9. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    That's a big reason we backed away from this stuff for a while. We were able to successfully install it, but the bigger concern is how it's going to remove down the road. The way it acted I don't think it's going to let go from the vehicle and fail, I just have a feeling it's going to be really tough to get off in a few years... I had been waiting to see if this would pop back up for anyone else, we've been using a bit of 3751 again recently assuming this disappeared or was isolated, but that doesn't look to be the case...
     
  10. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Orajet is the only vinyl that's done it to me before. I had to try the 3751RA with all these guys raving about it. Maybe it's just a fluke. I'm definitely not using the rest of the roll. Don't even wanna imagine removal. So I have to use 3M or Avery because I still have to produce wraps, politics aside. Those have been the only 2 I've been happy with. Maybe I'm just fortunate not to have bitten by them yet.
    Now let's see what the outcome is...or if it's just swept under the rug. Definitely post in here if you have the same problem. I think my kit came from Wisconsin. They didn't have any within a one day ship.
     
  11. Flame

    Flame Major Contributor

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    I use Oracal every day, and been using it for almost 10 years now. Never once has it happened to me EXCEPT for wrapping with 970RA satin black. I ran into that on one job and wasn't too pleased.

    Never used 3751 (always use 3951) so can't vouch for that line, but haven't had it happen on their others. Seems odd.

    I agree with others saying that Arlon used to do that. I indeed had that problem and it was aggravating.
     
  12. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Well 3751 RA is a newer product than 3951. The difference being
    it boasts a "low initial tack" which is why I gave it a try.
    I'd say they "messed up" how the "tack" works for sure.
     
  13. aaronJREgraphics

    aaronJREgraphics Member

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    wow! thats bad the only times i have seen that happen is we wrapped one of our old box trucks we used for hauling substrates with some mactac awhile back and we had some trouble with the adhesive coming off, but again it was cheap mactac I wouldnt expect this form something like 3751, kinda a let down for us we have heard good things and had thought about giving it a try ourselves but we will re think that now!
     
  14. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    That's exactly what happened to me. It wasn't in areas I squeegee'd. It was the front and back of the horizontal panel we were doing a partial. I had just set it there with my hand on the brake light and above it. When I pulled it up to make it taught...that was the result. All the pieces we trimmed off (in the wheel well area) did the same thing with NO pressure. Just stuck to itself as vinyl does when limp and pulling it apart separated the adhesive. I've sent those rolls back to Fellers and they are going to "test" them. Those wheel well pieces are the ones I'm sending as "printed samples" as I'm not going to print some more for them. We'll see what happens, but I sure as heck don't want it "replaced" with the same product.
     
  15. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Who did you get that vinyl from when it happened? Because the Fellers rep is claiming that it's never happened to them before. And I don't get a refund until after they do testing on the roll I sent back.
     
  16. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    I've used a ton of this stuff, and never had this issue. They have had some issues with their vinyl the past month or so, and they were all cleared out because of that issue. but I got an email yesterday telling me it was all resolved.. No issue here with this stuff though, it installs nice, and sticks.
     
  17. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    So you are saying they admitted to having issues recently.
    I am showing evidence that I had issues with it just a few days ago.
    Others here say they too had the exact problem.
    I think it stands to reason that this could be either
    a) part of that same "bad batch"
    or
    b) part of a new "bad batch"

    Either way, it's bad timing that it happened to me...someone giving the stuff a chance because I've heard so many "good things" about it from folks like yourself, and I wanted to be open to a vinyl other than 3M and Avery.
    I'll keep this thread posted on the results.
     
  18. Coloradosigns

    Coloradosigns Major Contributor

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    Understandable. I had the same issue with testing avery 2 years ago. So many contaminated rolls, but such a nice product... too bad for them they lost my business.

    Haven't had this issue with Oracle. the stuff does have a stronger initial tac then 3m. One just has to get use to it, and they'll understand the greatness.
     
  19. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    It's not just a recent issue, remember, this happened to us on several rolls back in January of this year.
     
  20. Kentucky Wraps

    Kentucky Wraps Kentucky Wraps

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    Got a message back from Oracal: This part of it I find hard to believe:

    "This is the first issue we’ve heard of this happening, so we immediately jumped on trying to get this material back into our facility for further testing."

    "We apologize for this inconvenience, and please believe me that we will be testing this material to ensure this was a fluke incident."

    Though they are very kind and punctual in their efforts to make this right...I hardly think this is the first time this has happened or that it's a "fluke incident".

    Especially considering the thread above.
     
  21. strypguy

    strypguy Active Member

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    Hate to say it but 3M 180 is alot easier to install then 3751. I like the 3751 for simple installs but anything complex I'd have to use the 3M. Oracal is my fav vinyl until it comes to wrapping which I don't do alot of. The 3751 was alot less forgiving then the 3M and it was a bear to reposition and pull up. Not sure about 3951 as I have not used much of that.

    John
     

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