Need Help Tiled Prints Not Lining Up

[George Marks]

I'm a sign installer for a shop and the larger tiled prints we do never line up.
I can always line up about a quarter of the graphic before it progressively goes off.
Even when I try lining it up on the table this happens.

We typically tile and overlap in illustrator. I recently saw a wrap video that mentioned you are supposed to tile in Onyx.
Our store uses Onyx as well, I brought it up to my boss and he doesn't see how that could be the problem.
He also thinks i'm just doing it wrong.

We have a big tiled mural job coming up and I would really like to find a fix for this.
Usually I can stretch and work it out when its on the good material, but this job will be on hi-tac and is unforgiving.
Any insight would be appreciated.

We gave an Epson Surecolor s60600

Thanks!

 

[netsol]

If it doesn't line up on the table, it is not you doing it wrong.
Is the profile you use introducing scaling?
Is the material simply being stretched? Is that why the first i

 

[George Marks]

If it doesn't line up on the table, it is not you doing it wrong.
Is the profile you use introducing scaling?
Is the material simply being stretched? Is that why the first i

Our first guess is its stretching, but wouldn't all the stretching be consistent as its printing?
Im not sure what you mean by the profile we use. Also i dont manage the printing.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Are you sure you're not stretching it as you install? If it gets progressively worse, I'd be surprised if it's the printer. The liner won't let it stretch and if we're off length wise, you'd figure every panel would be off the same amount.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I read the title and immediately assumed "latex" due to the amount of heat they use during print which can alter the size/shape of vinyl.
The S60600 by comparison needs very little heat (or zero when I sometimes forget to turn it on) during the print process.
I wonder how the tension and heat is set on the laminator if you can query it with your printer.

 

[George Marks]

Are you sure you're not stretching it as you install? If it gets progressively worse, I'd be surprised if it's the printer. The liner won't let it stretch and if we're off length wise, you'd figure every panel would be off the same amount.

Yeah i mentioned that i cant even line it up on the table

 

[jfiscus]

On your Epson printer, go back into the media setting that you are using to print and re-calibrate the print material. That will help it print better (less banding) and also help ensure that it is feeding it through correctly.
You may also want to measure your prints versus your original file and see how much they are off.

 

[rjssigns]

Get the boss out in the shop and show him the misaligned panels. If he still thinks it's you ask him to show you how to do it. Don't have to get snarky but sometimes the leader needs to be shown exactly what's going on.

Was in that position many years ago where I would get blamed for "stuff" that was not made correctly before it got to me.

 

[mim]

I've had that issue when the heat is too high and I'm using the takeup reel on my s80600.

 

[Precision]

Onyx is a really good tool. There is no reason not to use it to setup your prints, especially if your having these troubles already. Also the time saved on having you panelize is ridiculous.

Go to set up tiling, enble run as separate jobs tab. Then set your overlap. We either use a half inch or an inch. Then go to the tiling tab. I try and divide the wall with an equal number of panels as possible as wide as possible. Set the width you'd like each panel to be. At this same time you are watching what's happening in this photo area. Saves loads of time.

Also, if you use a tension adjuster on the carry roll that holds your prints as you laminate. If it is too tight you could be stretching the vinyl as you laminate? Might check that.

I hope this helps.

 

[jimbug72]

My first step would be to let the RIP do the tiling to make sure it wasn't some kind of scaling or other weird issue with the files as Netsol mentioned. If it's still misaligning, then it's probably stretching?

If it's stretching, it probably wouldn't be uniform. I never noticed stretching on adhesive vinyl on our SP-540i but we had some FTP banner that would stretch randomly. We had a bunch of banners that were going in a custom frame a guy built, and needed to all be the same size, but when finished they varied in size from 1/2" to over an inch difference, even when we reprinted the same files there would be size variations from the previous run.

I've not tiled a print, or compared exact banner sizes since we got our latex last year but I'm guessing that issue could be enhanced with the extra heat.

 

[depps74]

This has happened on my latex many times. It is frustrating as all hell and scary to print not knowing if your material is totaled until it has expended all the ink time and roll. If its not lining up on the table then it has to be the printer right? The suggestion above to tile in onyx and print each tile as a separate job is the way to go. That way if one tile is off, you can reprint that tile.

Also I calibrate the machine with the material already spooled on to the take up reel. This way the OPAS sensor is calibrating to that tension. HP recommends this but admittedly you loose about 5-8 feet of material in doing so. I'll be following this thread as its a common problem for us and each job feels like I am rolling the dice now. Hoping some YODA of printing has the 100% full proof solution to this problem.

 

[mbasch]

Its not that you are doing anything wrong. It is the printers. They use pinch rollers and those rollers can slip ever so slightly causing it to be amplified over the thousands of passes it takes to produce a long panel. None can do panels the exact length, consistently. If you read their published specs, they will give you a +/- % they consider "acceptable". They will tell you "oh you just need to calibrate it" or you "aren't taping up the take up reel correctly", etc., but the truth is you have pinch roles pushing material through and a take up reel adding tension combined with material that may stretch so it will be extremely difficult to get perfect panel to panel alignment. The roll starts out heavy on the input and by the end of the run, is heavier on the take up which means tension is changing throughout the entire print run. Our Epson is the worst (can be up to 1/2 off on an 8' run) and HP L360 is the most consistent (+/- 1/8). We do wallpaper and panels can be 20' long. In most cases we try to hold tolerance to 1/8" over 8', but you can't do that on our Epson, mimaki or our HP570. Our HP360 is the best, but our HP570 can't get 2 panels out the same length if our lives depended on it. The holy grail for us would be a roll printed that can actually print 2 the same length consistently over an entire roll of media.

 

[depps74]

Its not that you are doing anything wrong. It is the printers. They use pinch rollers and those rollers can slip ever so slightly causing it to be amplified over the thousands of passes it takes to produce a long panel. None can do panels the exact length, consistently. If you read their published specs, they will give you a +/- % they consider "acceptable". They will tell you "oh you just need to calibrate it" or you "aren't taping up the take up reel correctly", etc., but the truth is you have pinch roles pushing material through and a take up reel adding tension combined with material that may stretch so it will be extremely difficult to get perfect panel to panel alignment. The roll starts out heavy on the input and by the end of the run, is heavier on the take up which means tension is changing throughout the entire print run. Our Epson is the worst (can be up to 1/2 off on an 8' run) and HP L360 is the most consistent (+/- 1/8). We do wallpaper and panels can be 20' long. In most cases we try to hold tolerance to 1/8" over 8', but you can't do that on our Epson, mimaki or our HP570. Our HP360 is the best, but our HP570 can't get 2 panels out the same length if our lives depended on it. The holy grail for us would be a roll printed that can actually print 2 the same length consistently over an entire roll of media.

This is SUPER helpful mbasch. Here I have been thinking I was doing something wrong, but if its a common and expected problem that is much different. I guess the next question is how do you explain this to clients? We have had some success heating the material and pulling it into submission, its about all we can do I guess.

 

[John Hughes]

Hi. We use Versa Works and tile all our large graphics within the rip. A few clicks and it’s done + you can adjust where the tiles fall etc.

Not sure if in Onyx but in VW there’s a setting where you can ‘alternate’ every other print. Basically, it prints the first tile .. top to bottom and the second...bottom to top and keeps doing this for each tile within the job.
This helps with the alignment problem. Doesn’t fix 100% but does help.

John

 

[mbasch]

This is SUPER helpful mbasch. Here I have been thinking I was doing something wrong, but if its a common and expected problem that is much different. I guess the next question is how do you explain this to clients? We have had some success heating the material and pulling it into submission, its about all we can do I guess.

That is an entirely different problem. Definitely go through epson alignment process although for us it doesn't make an obvious difference. It may help. Play with the tension on the take up roll so it isn't pulling on the material when it advances with each print pass. You can also print by loosing it on the feed roll and then not attaching to the take up.

Customers don't like to hear your technical problems and no matter what you do, vinyl can stretch on install so it might look great on the table and then you pull of the release liner and it is stretched or depending on the ink, shrinks as it cures. We do include a disclaimer on our proofs when doing vinyl explaining that materials may stretch during the installation process causing slight alignment issues and that we make every effort to minimize the effect. I find client are more receptive on the front end vs installing and hoping they don't see it. We try to always install from the middle and work out so if they are different panel lengths, they align at eye level and the error is split between top and bottom.

 

[George Marks]

Hi. We use Versa Works and tile all our large graphics within the rip. A few clicks and it’s done + you can adjust where the tiles fall etc.

Not sure if in Onyx but in VW there’s a setting where you can ‘alternate’ every other print. Basically, it prints the first tile .. top to bottom and the second...bottom to top and keeps doing this for each tile within the job.
This helps with the alignment problem. Doesn’t fix 100% but does help.

John

So im actually installing the job right now and i was able to get our guy to tile it in the rip software and it helped big time.