Need Help To Clear or Not To Clear

[DPD]

Hi All,

I'm painting a bare wood exterior sign white. I was going to use a clear over the topcoat and found that the urethane clears will yellow (even though they are exterior). I don't spray and need something from a rattle can or brush-on. So now that big box clears are out of the question I'm stumped at what to use for a clear. I looked at Matthews and I don't see that its brush-on or rattle can, then I looked at 1-shot and I'm concerned about quality (should I be?).

I was using the clear to protect the topcoat and as a base for my vinyl letters and I'm thinking since my topcoat is an exterior quality semi-gloss paint I may not need the clear.

Any suggestions?

 

[Gino]

• What kinda wood ??
• What size is the finished piece ??
• Does it need sealing ??
• What kinda primer will you use ??
• What kinda top coat paint are you using ??
• Since you don't spray, do you know how to use a roller ??
• Are you painting this inside or outside on-site ??
• What is going on top ??
• Paint or vinyl ??
• Digital print or die-cut ??

Do you have the ability to prep this wood properly ??

 

[peerlessdani]

Mod Podge?

 

[Bradley Signs]

If it has been outside for a few years and it's dried out to the point where it is cracking and splitting, but not rotten, and it's just a plain sheet of plywood, and your a beginner, do one of two things, replace the substrate, or if you really must paint it, prime it with Original Kilz, roll it on, and roll on a couple coats of CrustOleum White! Use a foam roller... none of those hair losing sheep rollers.
It will survive a few years and the vinyl will stick to it.
If it is Sign Board, do the same thing.... maybe sand it down a bit if it's got something else on it....

 

[DPD]

• What kinda wood ??
• What size is the finished piece ??
• Does it need sealing ??
• What kinda primer will you use ??
• What kinda top coat paint are you using ??
• Since you don't spray, do you know how to use a roller ??
• Are you painting this inside or outside on-site ??
• What is going on top ??
• Paint or vinyl ??
• Digital print or die-cut ??

Do you have the ability to prep this wood properly ??

Gee, did I sort of leave information out on this one? Perhaps by answering Gino's questions it'll make it easier for everyone to help.

• I'm starting fresh with plywood.
• The sign will be 24"W x 36"L.
• The primer will be the sealer coat. I'm using FSC-88 WB (bought it to experiment but not for this project) but I'm not married to it.
• Topcoat is an exterior Benjamin Moore
• I am brush applying and then sanding when necessary to achieve a smoother coat.
• I am painting indoors at my place
• I will be applying vinyl lettering from my plotter. Oracal 651, it's a plain flat surface.

Thanks everyone.
- denis

 

[Gino]

Gee, did I sort of leave information out on this one? Perhaps by answering Gino's questions it'll make it easier for everyone to help.

• I'm starting fresh with plywood.
• The sign will be 24"W x 36"L.
• The primer will be the sealer coat. I'm using FSC-88 WB (bought it to experiment but not for this project) but I'm not married to it.
• Topcoat is an exterior Benjamin Moore
• I am brush applying and then sanding when necessary to achieve a smoother coat.
• I am painting indoors at my place
• I will be applying vinyl lettering from my plotter. Oracal 651, it's a plain flat surface.

So, if it's actual plywood, Ya fill all the voids and edges with your putty, sand it and seal the edges with your putty.
Sand the edges til smooth.
Now, ya sand the face(s) down with an orbital sander at that size. Tack it.
Use the stuff Yanki suggested, much better.
If you can, roll with with a low nap or foam roller for your first coat.
Once completely dry, sand it and tack it again.
Once completely dry, sand it and tack it again for a third and final coat.

Ya don't need any clear on this surface, unless your painting ability is really skimpy.

​

Years ago, this process would last 20 years. Today, you're lucky if ya get 5 or 6 years, unless its a deep color.​

 

[peerlessdani]

Gee, did I sort of leave information out on this one? Perhaps by answering Gino's questions it'll make it easier for everyone to help.

• I'm starting fresh with plywood.
• The sign will be 24"W x 36"L.
• The primer will be the sealer coat. I'm using FSC-88 WB (bought it to experiment but not for this project) but I'm not married to it.
• Topcoat is an exterior Benjamin Moore
• I am brush applying and then sanding when necessary to achieve a smoother coat.
• I am painting indoors at my place
• I will be applying vinyl lettering from my plotter. Oracal 651, it's a plain flat surface.

Thanks everyone.
- denis

I haven't had much luck getting 651 to stick to wood. I usually just make a stencil with 651 and then paint it on the wood, makes it more permanent. I have a spray modpodge that I spray on after and I brush the other kind of mod podge in the stencils before I paint to prevent bleeding.

 

[Gino]

I haven't had much luck getting 651 to stick to wood. I usually just make a stencil with 651 and then paint it on the wood, makes it more permanent. I have a spray modpodge that I spray on after and I brush the other kind of mod podge in the stencils before I paint to prevent bleeding.

I doubt the reason is because it's wood, but rather the paint you're using.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

FSC-88 is a sandable primer sealer used for high density urethane foam (like Precision Board). For plywood do what Gino says. Or use Kilz and high quality exterior grade latex (the glossier the better, but semi gloss works fine for me). I use PPG Manor Hall and have had signs up for 15+ years with little problem.
I would also recommend a better (cast) vinyl. I use 3M, but other makers are fine. 651 is a calendared product with a limited performance life and does not have the flexibility to work well on wood, which shrinks and expands.

 

[DPD]

I'm glad I asked this question and I'm hearing answers that I like. I should've mentioned it but the FSC-88 us for HDU and it does say it can be used on wood. I had it around so I've sorta been testing with it. I have the Kilz also so I'm going to give that a go. Sounds like the survey says that I'm OK to use Kilz with a high-quality latex (Benjamin or PPG) and I should be good to go - a clear on top is not needed.

I was figuring on going with a semi for the topcoat so that the Oracal 651 would have something to stick to.

I did speak to a one-shot representative and I briefly toyed with the idea of using the product but the startup cost between reducers, hardeners, primer, flattening agent, and paint would've really cut into the margins on this job. I'm really glad to hear I"m OK with the commercially available products.

 

[peerlessdani]

I doubt the reason is because it's wood, but rather the paint you're using.

Ehh, definitely could be but just my experience 651 doesn't stay well for a long amount of time. I personally wouldn't do it.

 

[Gino]

If you get bulletin 1Shot, ya don't need all those additives. You were talking to someone who didn't understand your question(s). It's still a decent paint and has more tooth than latex, but to each their own. The lettering 1Shot has decreased in quality, but I still use a ton of it. Do not use a satin or whatever for your background top coat. All paints eventually wear down and they turn satiny on their own. No need to start out at halfway through the durability part.

 

[Joe House]

You also need to be careful about putting vinyl on top of some "High Quality" paints. In a painter's mind High Quality tends to mean that you can clean it off easily (besides not fading, chalking, etc.). This "easy to clean" quality can affect how well/long vinyl will stick to your substrate.

 

[Gino]

That's a very good point. What I've noticed and have come to believe is, that the "easy to clean" pertains mostly to interior paints and latex type paints in general. Outdoor non-chalking, insect resilient and non-fading generally will still hold other paint or vinyl. However, it should be a higher gloss paint and not the satiny sheens.

 

[DPD]

I know the vinyl has a better chance with a gloss. I'm surprised and not surprised that some have had issues with intermediate vinyl on exterior paint. It was for the latter reason I was considering a clearcoat so that the vinyl had a finish it can stick to but then realized that a gloss paint and a gloss clear may just achieve the same purpose. Am I mistaken?

 

[karst41]

Good Grief that is a lot of BS to go through for a sign.
Been there done that

Go to a Plastics supplier and get a sheet of PVC White and
they will cut it to size. Calsak Plastics or Piedmont Plastics.

No edge sealer needed, no edge caps needed
No Primer, Paint and clear needed.

Buy you some 3m SC50 series intermediate Vinyl
That vinyl will last 10 years or longer.
10 yards is less than $30

Oh BTW, Your customer is paying for the PVC and
it will be cheaper overall.

You can also find remnants or drops as they call it from
both companies.

 

[HaleYeah]

Man, all this work you're putting in on this one piece of plywood, your better off putting the Oracal 651 vinyl on a piece of coroplast and call it a day.

 

[Gino]

Quite honestly, it's only a lotta BS, if you cannot do it and not set up for it. At 1/2" it will never warp, like the PVC you mentioned will do.

For any decent sign shop, this would take about 2 days to have the sign panel ready for lettering. If ya can wait, it'll be better, as the paint will cure a little more. However, hours-wise, you'd have maybe an hour invested for a 2'x3'. So, while your paint is drying, you'll be doing other things, thus technically, it'll be a bit more expensive to use 1/2" PVC.

 

[DPD]

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[Kenny Terhune Jr]

FROG JUICE