Translucent Outdoor media

[OADesign]

Hi All,

Happy new year! Welcome back to work!

Any recommendations on an eco-solvent printable adhesive back digital media for outdoor use?
It is going to be used on light box faces, channel letter faces etc.

So I would assume the specs I'm look for are:
6+ year out door life.
Cast
Clear permanent adhesive

Also if you have any thoughts on a matching lam.

We are in a situation where we used an inferior product, against my pointed recommendations, and now said product is failing (turning black and brittle) a few years later.
So i need to figure out what is the best way to go to replaced the failed products AND to use going forward.

Headed off to search, but hoped to get fresh new thoughts sooner.

 

[MikePro]

out of curiousity, what was the material that is failing? was it laminated?

big fan of Arlon 6500 for my cast transluscent print media. Much better price-point than 3M's 3630 series, with the same 7+year rating.
zero-issues in the past 5+years since changing-over from 3M.
For my "economy" transluscent prints, I like Fellers' house-brand "Solvex" transluscent vinyl. Lower rating, but zero failures thusfar... only issue is that it is a bit "yellow" (ivory-ish" right out of the box.

uncertain of ecosolvent capability, however.

Laminated with Arlon 3200 series, although I have used 3M 8500/8900 series overlaminates as well without issue.

 

[OADesign]

out of curiousity, what was the material that is failing? was it laminated?

Yes. It was totally cured and laminated...

Not wanting to embarrass myself any more, let's just leave it at this : It was the wrong media.
I warned my team on what would happen. It was not a question of "if", It was a question of "when". But I just draw pictures and push buttons...

Sometimes you can't argue enough, to make someone understand the details. Unfortunately, on these few projects, the kids had to burn their hands on the stove to learn their lesson.

Now I'm doing the due diligence to make it right and make sure we don't make the same mistake.

 

[OADesign]

bump for the morning crowd.

 

[OADesign]

out of curiousity, what was the material that is failing? was it laminated?

big fan of Arlon 6500 for my cast transluscent print media. Much better price-point than 3M's 3630 series, with the same 7+year rating.
zero-issues in the past 5+years since changing-over from 3M.
For my "economy" transluscent prints, I like Fellers' house-brand "Solvex" transluscent vinyl. Lower rating, but zero failures thusfar... only issue is that it is a bit "yellow" (ivory-ish" right out of the box.

uncertain of ecosolvent capability, however.

Laminated with Arlon 3200 series, although I have used 3M 8500/8900 series overlaminates as well without issue.

Thanks for the tips Mike! Much appreciated.

Any notes the process? I normally do a double pass for back lit prints. Should I assume the same with these products?

Any issues using these to print/lam/contour cut?

 

[MikePro]

double pass?!? not here, I hate how muddy/dark the colors become for daytime viewing
big fan of print/lam white trans. on the face, with reverse-print on clear applied to backside. saturates the light before it hits the face's-print at night, causing it to illuminate properly.
(I'll sometimes suggest adding a "blockout" black field to the negative white space on the reverse-print, which makes the logo really POP at night as opposed to being lost in a bright field of glowing white.)

doubles the material/labor, but quadruples the quality. My clients are always educated on the difference, in price as well, and they've always opted for it after seeing what a double-struck print looks like.

 

[OADesign]

double pass?!? not here, I hate how muddy/dark the colors become for daytime viewing
big fan of print/lam white trans. on the face, with reverse-print on clear applied to backside. saturates the light before it hits the face's-print at night, causing it to illuminate properly.
(I'll sometimes suggest adding a "blockout" black field to the negative white space on the reverse-print, which makes the logo really POP at night as opposed to being lost in a bright field of glowing white.)

doubles the material/labor, but quadruples the quality. My clients are always educated on the difference, in price as well, and they've always opted for it after seeing what a double-struck print looks like.

Not to belabor the point here but I have to ask: If I don't use the reverse clear layer on the backside, won't the colors look washed out (when lit at night) with out the double pass? I guess it would depend on which view is more important to the client.

I can see how all the other parts you mentioned (reverse clear on back, block out etc.) will up the quality. But here, in my market, I would have a hard time selling such a product with all the added cost(s).

And back to your first statement about reverse-print on clear applied to backside. Would you use this for a channel letter face? For example if I needed to do a gradient color? I imagine there could be light leaks or visible flaws around the trim of a letter or shape if not executed perfectly.
And lets say you have a logo on a white field. How do you handle lining up the front/back images? In my mind, any misalignment of the images, would look like a "blur" or a shadow.

 

[J Hill Designs]

if you dont use the clear on 2nd surface:

and you DO double pass on the translucent: it looks good at night but WAY over saturated in the day

and you DONT double pass on the translucent: it looks correct in the day but washed out at night



if you use the clear 2nd surface and single pass on the trans 1st surface it looks correct both day and night

 

[MikePro]

yeah, regular prints wash-out at night time & double-struck prints look really dark in daylight.
its a simple option to throw-out to your client and just let them decide budget vs. quality. at least they know what to expect for their $$$.
everyone wants to be competitive but nobody wants to take that phone call, after successful completion of the project, from a client that is now upset with muddy/washed-out graphics & refuses to pay because it looks nothing like the artwork they approved.

 

[MikePro]

Dual-layer prints doesn't have to involve the backside, however, as you can just apply your clear print to the face and then overlay your white trans. print, if you like.
I do front/back because you have a bit more of a buffer for registration/alignment. If slightly misaligned on the face, the graphic (especially text) appears to have a beveled-effect when illuminated whereas you can't tell the difference unless ridiculously out of alignment if applying your saturation layer to the backside.
noted: I also use a light table for this kind of application, I can't imagine doing-so without one.

sometimes I'll even pre-apply my layers, for say custom colors/gradients for channel letters or elements of logos that I can't do with regular trans. vinyl.
I'll print on clear, laminate with printed/laminated white trans. and just treat like any other transluscent vinyl.

 

[Sideline]

Digital Translucent Issue

What is the best process for using white acrylic panels as the substrate....I printed on the Solvex and laminated...night time view is terrible...I can only assume the customer will be calling me...just did the job yesterday....step by step procedure would be appreciated.....
Is this correct ?
Print on white solvex then laminate for the face ?
Print on clear vinyl (reversed) to be applied on the back of the panel ?
Thanks for any replies......

 

[J Hill Designs]

Print on white solvex then laminate for the face ?
Print on clear vinyl (reversed) to be applied on the back of the panel ?

yep

 

[Sideline]

Translucent Question

yep

Thank you....