Trimming Vinyl off edges of substrate

[GreyOx]

Hello, sign community. How does everyone go about trimming the vinyl (full coverage) off of pvc, aluminum, foamcore (pvc faced), etc? For the longest time, I've trimmed them with an exacto blade with the print facing down. I would use the edge of the substrate as my guide during cutting. I have another guy here that is unable to do that consistently. Do you have any recommendations or tips on the subject? We are hoping to adopt a methodology that both of us will execute the same way.

 

[Gino]

If whatever he does works, then let him do it his way and yu do it your way. There's no right or wrong way, other thn don't fug it up in any process.

Personally, I use a straight knife, but any sharp blade will do from an xacto, to a box knife to a utility to whatever.

 

[Z SIGNS]

I use a file

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Print side up with a single edge razor blade, keep it straight.

 

[mim]

I prefer the xacto method (print facing up though) but I use a sanding block when its on a soft material or if it was a wet apply. Seems like something you could do successfully a number of ways

 

[Stacey K]

I put the vinyl on first then use a single edge razor blade.

Depending on the application I sometimes just trim it in 1/8" in. Obviously some full coverage signs need to be full coverage, others like my baseball signs don't need to be and they are moved around and dragged on grass (by the high school kids who move them around once I deliver them) so I don't like the edge of the vinyl being on the very edge of the sign. Why do I do that? I don't know, I just do.

 

[GreyOx]

Thanks for the all feedback. With the print facing up, do you keep the sign flat on the table? Sounds like print up is more common. Right now the other guys holds the sign up and going underneath uses a 45 degree angle. It's not as consistent as it needs to be. Plus, when we use the same standard methods, any improvements are gained by everyone.

 

[Stacey K]

Holding it up sounds difficult, how can he keep the print straight and hold it up at the same time? I think doing it on the table flat is easier...that's what I do or I put the vinyl on then just trim it...all done flat on the table.

 

[GreyOx]

I tend to pull the panel off the side of the table during trimming, using a downward stroke to get it started. No Xacto's, just a fine breakaway blade like the NT cutter red dot with 30 degree blade. Fresh blades do wonders. Keep the blade running parallel to the material, not angled or anything. Angled blade tends to dig in deeper and depending on what it is, risks wrecking the edge (acrylics with lit edges and acm) and contributing to failure (like finished wood panels).
But if it's a full coverage print with cheap calendared material (like ij35c), wrap the edges of the panel and stick it to the back!

That is helpful info! Thanks. I'll have to try it.
Xactos flex a lot. I could see breakaway blades being better with that type of motion. We have a ton of those blades here. We use something like ij35c air release but it doesn't shrink as bad. We also laminate everything vinyl. Surprisingly for calendared vinyl and laminate, its pretty stable on boards.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

The single edge razors seem to give the tightest cut and are the easiest to keep straight. The snap blades and exacto knives always leave a tiny overhang. Like the guy from Arkansas said, slide if off the edge of the table, do 2 sides then rotate it and do the other 2. I don't wrap cal vinyl, full bleed or not. That extra time spent screwing with that could pay for cast. 4x8's aside, you can gang signs right next to each other and cut them in 2 but leaving material to wrap edges throws that out the window and requires twice as many cuts.

 

[GreyOx]

The single edge razors seem to give the tightest cut and are the easiest to keep straight. The snap blades and exacto knives always leave a tiny overhang. Like the guy from Arkansas said, slide if off the edge of the table, do 2 sides then rotate it and do the other 2. I don't wrap cal vinyl, full bleed or not. That extra time spent screwing with that could pay for cast. 4x8's aside, you can gang signs right next to each other and cut them in 2 but leaving material to wrap edges throws that out the window and requires twice as many cuts.

I just did a couple of tests with a breakaway knife and a single edge razor. The single edge razor was better with the print up, off the table. I did angle it some. If I try straight parallel, It look rough. I am doing all test on ultraboard pvc faced 1/2" foamcore. Toughest material for clean edges that Ive worked with. Im surprised with the amount of variation everyone uses. Anything beyond my method of print down was crazy to me until now.

 

[GreyOx]

This is just a point where you can excel beyond your competition! I have plenty of .040 panels I did for a construction company that used to throw them away between jobs. Now they reuse mine... Ok that's not a great point, since I killed my own potential repeat business with the customer, but for a panel that is getting screwed straight to a building for an extended amount of time, we wrap the edges every time. Makes for some good wrapping practice too, since it really doesn't in any way need to be perfect.

Sad Day! At least you do a better job. I've considered wrapping wood panels, but never considered it on anything else. I haven't seen our vinyl ever peel off of the substrate. Anything is possible.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Ah, don't forget to angle your knife 45 degrees in the cutting direction.

I can wrap all 4 edges of a 4x8 in a couple of minutes, face up. Even if I do a sh*t job, it's better than the edge lifting at some point. I do take pride in this, since I see my competitors panels all over peeling and then rapidly degrading. It's especially critical on multipanel projects like gas station canopies.
Regardless, if you waste 10 minutes doing it on ij35c vs ij180, according to my math at 75/hr, that's just $12.50. In a magic world, comparing 32sqft of ij35 vs ij180, no laminates figured, that's $13.44 vs $33.60 cost, my markup will be 2.5, so $33.60 vs $84. That difference is well under my 10 minutes, don't have to unload the printer from the garbage ij35, don't have to donk with 8518 (I hate it so much), and I don't have to turn over every rock to find ij180. If I thought my market would support the added cost to the projects, sure, but when I'm selling against folks with a printer in their garage, no luck (and not that I want to compete, I just want to accommodate customers that are already paying for a $10k sign and avoid having them find a print shop instead.)
If it's a 4'x4', I can tack the edge to the laminator close to the rollers, then shove it through for a very crisp edge. That or roll the panel from face down to face up against the table. Takes some skill, and anything beyond 4' for acm bows too much to do without wasting time. Don't forget to 45 all the corners or it'll fold up into a nice mess...

That's a lot of words Burton. Your awning decals outlast the gas station. That takes skills, I agree. I do share your pain with 8518 but it's so nice. It's almost dead silent running through the laminator. You just sit there and watch the dollars roll by, in silence which is priceless. Until my wife asks me some stupid question half way through and ruins it all.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

For some weird reason arlons 3270 is so nice to run. Usually we run 3420, which is fine, but 3270 tracks so nicely and it too rolls pretty quietly.

Arlon doesn't have the same ring to it as 3m, pricing is close so I stick with 3m. I do like the SLX+, I tried that on your recommendation and have gone through quite a bit. I don't like the regular SLX. Under that, IJ40c with 8518 is good stuff. For cal, it's substance. Can't beat it.
If you don't like webbing 8518, try vandalguard. That stuff is miserable.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I keep meaning to try substance out, who's your distributor?

You buy it direct from them. They will send samples

 

[Modern Ink Signs]

Simple……

Do what works best for the person to get done right, quickly and cleanly. No right or wrong way.

 

[bobbiffxx]

I tend to pull the panel off the side of the table during trimming, using a downward stroke to get it started. No Xacto's, just a fine breakaway blade like the NT cutter red dot with 30 degree blade. Fresh blades do wonders. Keep the blade running parallel to the material, not angled or anything. Angled blade tends to dig in deeper and depending on what it is, risks wrecking the edge (acrylics with lit edges and acm) and contributing to failure (like finished wood panels).
But if it's a full coverage print with cheap calendared material (like ij35c), wrap the edges of the panel and stick it to the back!

I do it this way as well but hold the excess with your other hand and lightly pull at the same time as cutting.