I have a major problem with a customer. For the past two years I have printed for a cheer squad. Their colors are maroon and gold. In the past they have LOVED the shirts I have done for them. This past year they are upset because they say the maroon is not dark enough. It is the exact same jar of ink, same process, same coaches, same outcome color I have used in the past. No complaints. They want me to remake 2 out of the 4 garments they have ordered. 30 tshirts and 30 hooded sweatshirts, 2 color ink, two sides with gold glitter vinyl added. Looking at shirts, now that they have brought it to my attention, I would say the color is a cardinal red. They claim that they kids cannot wear red at all to school because of gangs, etc. I thought maybe somehow I may have mixed brown with the maroon ink to get it darker in the past, until I saw a cheerleader with last years shirts I did. It's the same exact color as the shirt I just delivered. So they are not being truthful saying kids can't wear these shirts. They are admitting they should of told me, but are also upset that it is not "school colors" color. I also, showed the coach front and back of all garments on delivery when she gave me final payment. My daughter goes to a school I do some shirts for and they ask for maroon and cardinal red. What do I do? I really financially cannot afford to replace and certainly not able to refund their money. BTW it is QCM Maroon ink on a black shirt with white underbase, one pass.
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Unhappy customer!
- Thread starter ocean502
- Start date
Gino
Premium Subscriber
It's kinda tough to think you can't remember if you added anything to the ink in the past or not to achieve their requested color or not, but you hafta ask yourself, did you do it right or not in the past and they were being kind to you.... or you just did what you had to do to get by ?? I realize from a narrow financially point of view this might not be possible, but why should they accept something which is wrong.... if you knew if might be wrong after looking at things ??
Seems like both parties here made some mistakes and some communication errors. I would ask them if they would meet you 1/2 way if they want them done over.... or offer them a huge discount like at cost for their next order.
No matter what you do, if you don't do what they want.... with school budgets and everything else being cut these days, they'll probably never return if you don't give in almost 100%.
Seems like both parties here made some mistakes and some communication errors. I would ask them if they would meet you 1/2 way if they want them done over.... or offer them a huge discount like at cost for their next order.
No matter what you do, if you don't do what they want.... with school budgets and everything else being cut these days, they'll probably never return if you don't give in almost 100%.
Locals Find!
New Member
1. You need to get a real sample of the last years shirt and see if it truly matches the colors. Then make decisions from that point.
2. Having run a screenprint shop for a few years. You need to always, always, always, always (you getting this ?) Keep your formulas printed onto a sample shirt and keep it on file. Cut the shirt up whatever you have to do put it into the file with the separations. This will make sure each and every time you are getting the same result. I usually cut up the shirt and make sure the tag is taped in place so I know the exact brand too.
3. On your separations always record the ink mixture you are using. The brand, the mesh count of the screen every detail of the job. This can be taped off when your burning your screen and you always know what and why you did what you did. I always kept extensive notes for every single job in the file. Including the brand of emulsion I used on my screens, the burn time, which press, which operator, the hardness and size of the squeegee.
4. Always make sure your markup is at 50% or greater. So if you have to eat a job your just zeroing out on your profit not dipping into your reserves.
Your in trouble now because, you made the mistake many screenprinters make you didn't take and record proper job notes or price properly.
If you truly screwed the pooch you have one of two options. 1. Convince them to accept the job at cost - crediting the difference no cash refunds ever sets a bad precedent 2. Offer to reprint the job at cost within 1 year. This is based solely on the fact that your running such tight margins that you didn't give yourself a minimum 50% markup to be able to cover the job getting screwed up.
2. Having run a screenprint shop for a few years. You need to always, always, always, always (you getting this ?) Keep your formulas printed onto a sample shirt and keep it on file. Cut the shirt up whatever you have to do put it into the file with the separations. This will make sure each and every time you are getting the same result. I usually cut up the shirt and make sure the tag is taped in place so I know the exact brand too.
3. On your separations always record the ink mixture you are using. The brand, the mesh count of the screen every detail of the job. This can be taped off when your burning your screen and you always know what and why you did what you did. I always kept extensive notes for every single job in the file. Including the brand of emulsion I used on my screens, the burn time, which press, which operator, the hardness and size of the squeegee.
4. Always make sure your markup is at 50% or greater. So if you have to eat a job your just zeroing out on your profit not dipping into your reserves.
Your in trouble now because, you made the mistake many screenprinters make you didn't take and record proper job notes or price properly.
If you truly screwed the pooch you have one of two options. 1. Convince them to accept the job at cost - crediting the difference no cash refunds ever sets a bad precedent 2. Offer to reprint the job at cost within 1 year. This is based solely on the fact that your running such tight margins that you didn't give yourself a minimum 50% markup to be able to cover the job getting screwed up.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Care to elaborate ??
If a shirt run costs me $2.00 or $24 for a dozen, to make the screen costs me $5.00, the ink 35¢ and the rest is my time say worth another $1.50 per shirt, after adding overhead and other incidentals, I might have my total coming in around $65.00 or so. So, 50% of $65. is $32.50. That's all you want to mark it all up ?? That's gonna cover your butt when things go south on ya ?? Yeah, you're a good one to give advice.
Okay, get on your bicycle and start pedalin' real fast................
Pat Whatley
New Member
In Addie's defense he did say 50% or greater. I've got several products I sell that I just double my cost on for exactly the reason he said....if anything goes wrong I can redo it and break even.
He also said the most intelligent thing too: You need to get a real sample of the last years shirt and see if it truly matches the colors. Then make decisions from that point. If this years shirt matches last years shirt then the problem is theirs. If it doesn't it's yours.
Hope it works out and everybody can be happy.
He also said the most intelligent thing too: You need to get a real sample of the last years shirt and see if it truly matches the colors. Then make decisions from that point. If this years shirt matches last years shirt then the problem is theirs. If it doesn't it's yours.
Hope it works out and everybody can be happy.
4R Graphics
New Member
If the person in charge looked at them accepted them and paid you then its all on them.
If you want to be a nice guy and keep this customer in the future then you would want to check last years shirt if its the same they are #$%@ out of luck if its not then you need to fix it.
Just my 2 cents.
I also sell products at a 50% markup just to cover myself incase I have to redo the job. Ideally you want to make a higher margin but some things you just dont have the margin for it.
If you want to be a nice guy and keep this customer in the future then you would want to check last years shirt if its the same they are #$%@ out of luck if its not then you need to fix it.
Just my 2 cents.
I also sell products at a 50% markup just to cover myself incase I have to redo the job. Ideally you want to make a higher margin but some things you just dont have the margin for it.
Locals Find!
New Member
Care to elaborate ??
If a shirt run costs me $2.00 or $24 for a dozen, to make the screen costs me $5.00, the ink 35¢ and the rest is my time say worth another $1.50 per shirt, after adding overhead and other incidentals, I might have my total coming in around $65.00 or so. So, 50% of $65. is $32.50. That's all you want to mark it all up ?? That's gonna cover your butt when things go south on ya ?? Yeah, you're a good one to give advice. [/SIZE]
Okay, get on your bicycle and start pedalin' real fast................
Gino,
don't know who taught you math, must be that new core standards math the one where you get points for the wrong answer for BSing your way through, but let me help you out here. I will teach you how to do the math properly. Grab a calculator.Now, enter in your cost $65.00 (your number) hit the divide key, now enter .50 and hit the equals key. Your number will be $130.00.
The mistake you made Gino is you assumed to achieve a 50% Markup you would find 50% of your cost (32.50) and add it to your original cost (65.00) this is a mistake. You can't do this with a markup.
Let me show you why this doesn't work. Grab that calculator again using your math this time. Enter in $97.50 (65 + 32.50) now multiple that by .50 you will see your number comes out to $48.75. Deduct that from your original number you get less than your actual starting cost.
So for the future to add a markup its always divide the cost by the remaining balance from 100 after your markup number has been deducted. If I wanted to add a 65% markup I would divide my 65 by .35. Looks like this 65/.35 = 185.71. If I then take my 185.71 and multiply it by .65 you will get 120.71 your markup. You deduct the 120.71 from the 185.71. 185.71 - 120.71 = 65 (your cost)
Here is something for your efforts though
Jillbeans
New Member
Looks like the same damn color to me. I agree, I think one of the moms (presumably one who has a CirCut or who knows someone who does printing) put in her belated 2¢.
I would show them this same comparison pic and tell them no reprints, and point out the fact that they seemed satisfied when the order was picked up.
Sometimes you gotta be mean.
Love.....Jill
I would show them this same comparison pic and tell them no reprints, and point out the fact that they seemed satisfied when the order was picked up.
Sometimes you gotta be mean.
Love.....Jill
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
Gino,
Now, enter in your cost $65.00 (your number) hit the divide key, now enter .50 and hit the equals key. Your number will be $130.00.
The mistake you made Gino is you assumed to achieve a 50% Markup you would find 50% of your cost (32.50) and add it to your original cost (65.00) this is a mistake. You can't do this with a markup.
Let me show you why this doesn't work. Grab that calculator again using your math this time. Enter in $97.50 (65 + 32.50) now multiple that by .50 you will see your number comes out to $48.75. Deduct that from your original number you get less than your actual starting cost.
So for the future to add a markup its always divide the cost by the remaining balance from 100 after your markup number has been deducted. If I wanted to add a 65% markup I would divide my 65 by .35. Looks like this 65/.35 = 185.71. If I then take my 185.71 and multiply it by .65 you will get 120.71 your markup. You deduct the 120.71 from the 185.71. 185.71 - 120.71 = 65 (your cost)
Here is something for your efforts though
Gino is right in his markup or margin (same thing .. one is for end user pricing involving a middle man aka retail the other is for production aka screen printing). A markup is your core amount of (x) multiplied by the percent you mark it up (y) plus 1 for the actual amount so the formula is X * (1+y) which in your math markup is $65 * 1.5 ... simple math. your math you actually want to do is a 100% markup on inventory which would be x*2 OR x/(1/2) which is the same damn thing. But thank you for showing that your basic understanding of business concepts and algebra are correct.
Gino, you're forgetting your overhead in the markup (time, ultilities, etc) ... sort of required for just a simple markup in case of errors ... but I know you know that ...
i'm just being picky.OP ... your margin should have covered at least the cost of this. if you aren't basing your pricing on (materials + man hours + shop overhead) times (margin for error) as base pricing ... you can't really cover the occasional laps in customer b.s. or shop oopsies or hell just a change in what people thing maroon is vs what it actually is. Even a partial margin of 20-40% over the last 20 jobs (or one big job) would give you padding for errors such as this.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Gino is right in his markup or margin (same thing .. one is for end user pricing involving a middle man aka retail the other is for production aka screen printing). A markup is your core amount of (x) multiplied by the percent you mark it up (y) plus 1 for the actual amount so the formula is X * (1+y) which in your math markup is $65 * 1.5 ... simple math. your math you actually want to do is a 100% markup on inventory which would be x*2 OR x/(1/2) which is the same damn thing. But thank you for showing that your basic understanding of business concepts and algebra are correct.
Gino, you're forgetting your overhead in the markup (time, ultilities, etc) ... sort of required for just a simple markup in case of errors ... but I know you know that ...
OP ... your margin should have covered at least the cost of this. if you aren't basing your pricing on (materials + man hours + shop overhead) times (margin for error) as base pricing ... you can't really cover the occasional laps in customer b.s. or shop oopsies or hell just a change in what people thing maroon is vs what it actually is. Even a partial margin of 20-40% over the last 20 jobs (or one big job) would give you padding for errors such as this.
Yeah, I left a few things out so not to confuse most people. The numbers I used there aren't what we use either, but you get my drift. Anyone knows, well, except for Addie, that 50% of anything is 1/2 of the whole. 100% of something is exactly what you have invested. 200% is doubling your investment and that's where numbnuts is confused. Most people have difficulty with 50% vs. 200%.
$65. 50% is $32.50 added to your $65 and you end up with $97.50.
$65. 100% is $65 added to your $65 and you end up with $130.00
$65. 200% is $130 added to your $65 and you end up with $195.00
As for Addie's math and calculations..... no wonder he's in the mess he's in.
Dividing that amount by the 50% is an invalid equation. He's got some kind of stoopid way of figuring things out and I'll betcha, most of the time, his formula does not work. Hence, the reason he's where he's at..... the bottom of a real estate company which Mommy runs and pays him to do busy-work.
Locals Find!
New Member
Yeah, I left a few things out so not to confuse most people. The numbers I used there aren't what we use either, but you get my drift. Anyone knows, well, except for Addie, that 50% of anything is 1/2 of the whole. 100% of something is exactly what you have invested. 200% is doubling your investment and that's where numbnuts is confused. Most people have difficulty with 50% vs. 200%.
$65. 50% is $32.50 added to your $65 and you end up with $97.50.
$65. 100% is $65 added to your $65 and you end up with $130.00
$65. 200% is $130 added to your $65 and you end up with $195.00
As for Addie's math and calculations..... no wonder he's in the mess he's in.
Gino, my math is far from screwy or wrong. It is common practice and proper math for business. Here are a few links to prove my point.
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/calculate-markup-cost-1666.html
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/65175.html
http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.02/nick1.html