Union Sign Shop's, is there a Union for our trade in Wisconsin?

[Jumpshoutmedia]

Hey guys, I have a couple questions for shops that are Union. It doesn't seem like there is a strong Union presence in our industry (nationwide at least). Am I missing something? There's one "local" in my area called International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, but I'm not sure if that covers small sign shops. So Cal has the Local 510 Sign & Display, but I can't find anything similar for Wisconsin.

My next question, forgive me if I sound ignorant, but are there benefits to Unionizing? and finally, can I Unionize my own shop if I'm a sole proprietor?

A lot of people I ask this question to end up looking at me like I'm insane, because I want to learn more about Unions (not necessarily voluntarily join) until I know more, but here are the reasons I might. I like the opportunity to take safety training, OSHA, man-lift etc. I've been operating my company for about 10 years by myself, but I am considering taking on a few employees, and expanding a bit.. and I like the idea of utilizing the local Union as a hiring tool. There are also possibilities to bid jobs that require union affiliation, like at convention centers, etc.

I'm also interested in learning about additional benefits and resources that a Union might be able to offer a small shop like mine.

Any info other Union shops might be able to provide would be greatly appreciated! (Also, any bad points / downfalls there might be as well!)

Thanks.
-Dom

 

[reQ]

Don't know how is it in US, but unions in Canada are useless, trying stay away from them. But still would be interesting to hear positive/negative points on this question.

 

[Billct2]

I have never lived/worked in an area that had a "sign" union. Those shops that did have unions were usually an affiliated trade like sheet metal or painters.
If it's that hard to find out the info in your area it's not going to have the benefits you are looking for, ie training and a labor base already experienced in the trade.

 

[ol'phart]

Union Shop sole proprietor

My wife and I joined the union as sole proprietors several years ago in order to take advantage of the reasonable health insurance. It was a good idea for us at the time. I do not believe they are allowing sole proprietors to become union shops anymore but its worth asking. You can research the painters and allied trades union in your state for more information. The medical is no longer the good deal it used to be but there is an advantage in that I am the only "union" shop in my area which does bring me some clients for that reason only. The pension plan has been reduced but the dues keep going up. We are quickly approaching the point where it may no longer be advantageous to be union. Do your homework... good luck

 

[MikePro]

nope, no "sign union" here in Wisconsin BUT we are a Union shop... Sheet Metal Workers' Union & Electrical Workers' Union employees manufacture our products. It definitely helps with larger projects where the GC will only allow Union Workers on premise during their construction phase, but I wouldn't exactly recommend it for the smaller operations out there, mainly for overhead/flexibility. But if you are still looking to do-so, you're best off visiting your local sheet metal workers' union to discuss with them in further detail...and tell them how sweet their sign looks! (union-made, UL certified)

Osha training/lift certification/etc., however, are absolutely worth taking care-of asap. Don't need to be a Union employee to stop-in to Fabco & receive a quick 2hr training video/exam to get lift certified (you can even become certified to train your own employees). Hefty fines imposed by OSHA can kill a small sign shop for simply not wearing proper gear during an install... or, even worse, someone could injure themselves on the clock and your best way to protect your investment(and employees, of course) is to have all your ducks-in-a-row leading up to such incidents to prove that you are always making strides to provide a safe work environment for your employees.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Osha training/lift certification/etc., however, are absolutely worth taking care-of asap. Don't need to be a Union employee to stop-in to Fabco & receive a quick 2hr training video/exam to get lift certified (you can even become certified to train your own employees).

Alright, so I know this is off topic. I straight up had no idea you were supposed to be lift certified. My previous employer didn't require it and we used lifts ALL the time. Rentals from Home Depot (35' boom), from other companies - scissor lifts and up to 125' booms. None of the rental companies ever mentioned this. As a sign shop owner now myself, this is something concerning. We don't use lifts (easier and cheaper to sub out), but we might in the future.

Long story short, what are the requirements for lift certification? Is there a certain height? A certain type of lift? Is it state dependent? The only thing I could find from OSHA was a sheet that showed basic training stuff, but nothing about a certification.

 

[earplug]

It doesn't appear to be an OSHA "regulation" however based on this OSHA letter you do need Certification.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/ow...NS&p_toc_level=0&p_keyvalue=&p_status=CURRENT Standard Interpretations - Table of Contents

• Standard Number:

1926.453; 1926.21; 1926.32

---

October 23, 1992
Mr. Brian Mills
National Safety Manager
Vibroplant, Inc.
1001 W. Euless Boulevard
Euless, Texas 76040-5033
Dear Mr. Mills:
Your May 18 letter to Mr. Jim Knorpp, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Area Director for Fort Worth, was forwarded to this office for response. I apologize for the delay in replying to your inquiry as to OSHA's interpretations of the terms "certified" and "qualified" as used in ANSI standards for aerial lifts.
Aerial lifts are specifically addressed by OSHA at 29 CFR 1926.453 Paragraph (a) if that section requires aerial lifts to be designed and constructed in conformance with ANSI A92.2-1969 (including the appendix). The paragraph does not require the operation and use of equipment to be in conformance with the ANSI standard. There are two OSHA standards addressing the qualifications of lift operators. Section 1926.21(b)(2) requires employers to instruct each employee in the recognition and avoidance of unsafe conditions and the regulations applicable to his work environment. Section 1926.556(b)(2)(ii) requires that "only authorized persons shall operate an aerial lift." The term "authorized person is defined at 1926.32(d) as "a person approved or assigned by the employer to perform a specific type of duty or duties or to be at a specific location or locations at the jobsite." There are no specific OSHA regulations that require aerial lift operators to be either certified or qualified.
In the situation where operator capabilities are the issue, OSHA would first determine if the operator was trained and if no training was provided, issue a citation for violating 1926.21(b)(2). IF training was provided, OSHA would need to use the general duty requirements of paragraph 5(a)(1) of the OSH Act to address any related violations. In so doing, OSHA would use the ANSI requirements to help establish what the industry practice is in regard to operator qualifications. Although OSHA defines the term, "qualified" at 1926.32(1), the terms "certified" and "qualified would have to be defined by ANSI in this case because it would be that organization's definitions of its own terms that would govern the application of its requirements. Consequently, it is that organization that must define the terms for you.
If we can be of further assistance, please contact Mr. Roy F. Gurnham or Mr. Dale R. Cavenaugh of my staff in the Office of Construction and Maritime Compliance Assistance at (202)219-8136.
Sincerely, Roy, F. Gurnham, ESQ., P.E.
Director
Office of Construction and Maritime
Compliance Programs

 

[Desert_Signs]

That letter says there are NO requirements to be certified, only trained. And training just means you were told how to use it.

Right?

 

[Rocco G]

Ignoring the OSHA regs (which almost require an in-house lawyer to decipher), you can be a sole prop and also be in a union. In our area there are a group of small one-two person union shops. It happened when a few large shops went belly up and former employees wanted to be their own boss or the economy forced smaller shops to downsize.

The Sheet metal workers will probably be glad to have you but check to see if there is a trade union organization in your area. They can prob steer you in the right direction. Also, the IBEW usually has a sign division, but that might just be in larger metro areas. Again, you will have to check.

Just a word of caution. Once you become a union shop, you aren't "supposed" to have non-union workers. I'm not talking about a secretary, but say your installers and/or folks making the signs. You also aren't really supposed to hire on a non-union temp workers.

There are a lot of costs per worker when you hire union. You pay their health care, union fees (national and local), retirement, etc. In our area the total package is ~$44/hr/worker with the actual rate at about $25/hr. That ignores SS and workers comp, etc. Your local rates will vary but the benefits package can be a burden.

Some of my best workers have been union, but the opposite side of the same coins applies as well. My worst employees have been unionized as well. Sometimes when you get a guy/gal into a union situation they start to feel entitled. It's kind of like the person working at the township permit office who is "doing you a favor by doing their job".

 

[HulkSmash]

Unions are garbage. Plain and Simple.

 

[SignManiac]

Unions are garbage. Plain and Simple.

One of the big reasons the auto industry nearly collapsed.

 

[Zx360]

Thanks.
-Dom

Totally off topic, but where about a in Milwaukee are you?
Im in Waukesha and work at a shop in hartland wi, nice to know fellow shop owners/ employees

 

[SolitaryT]

I think there are places for a sign-makers union. I remember working in Denver, skipping from franchise to franchise, each one run by some douche who made money from the dot.com bubble and heard sign shops were easy... all of the production staff getting paid like $10/hour, the highly skilled ones wrapping cars maybe made $12 or $13, never any benifits or anything like that. I would have loved it. However, now I own my own shop in Salida, Colorado, and I wouldn't touch a workers union.

All of that being said, I'd love to start an alliance of independent sign shops, bid projects out, buy stuff from the independently owned guys and circumvent the franchises...

 

[reQ]

All of that being said, I'd love to start an alliance of independent sign shops, bid projects out, buy stuff from the independently owned guys and circumvent the franchises...

Might be good idea on paper, but never going to work in real life. There is million reasons for it.