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US Tariffs, Sigh!
- Thread starter JamesLam
- Start date
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
And this is why I stopped my discussion with you. you're not serious about any of your arguments. you and big nate would rather make jokes than actually discuss the issues like adults.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I see a China problem with the Clinton and Obama administrations. Funny how during covid China never waivered yet everyone else fell back.
Whats not serious?
Do you have any idea how many different electronic parts go into products? Or what's required to produce those products?
Tawaiin is the #1 semi conductor producer in the world.... All of intels and AMD's CPUs are made there because despite having factories in other locations, not one of those factories can produce the chips in the size and quality needed. TSMC is spending 165 billion, and almost a decade of time to try to expand a current factory in order to produce chips.... And they don't even expect to be anywhere near as good as their tawaiin factory. Let alone all the rate earth materials needed that you can't get in USA.... Which china has stopped exporting to USA, so a lot of good the factories will do without the materials the factories need.
Thats 1 plant... And that 1 plant can't even produce 10% of the chips USA needs for domestic production.
Supply chain is called a chain for a reason, there's thousands of pieces to the puzzle.... Having 1 little factory won't do anything when you don't have the expertise or the materials to use that factory.
Quick Google search, so I don't know how accurate it is. China has 6.03 million factories.... USA has 292,000. If you think Canada is small in its capabilities compared to USA.... USA is 1/20th of China's. You guys can't produce everything in houses and it's dumb to try, all trump is doing is playing with the stock market.. because he can't be as stupid as he seems in thinking this is a good idea.
So yes, my remark was sarcastic and over the top, but I'm sorry .. If you think having 3 factories is going to allow America to manufacture in house... You're crazy.
How much do you outsource? Why don't you spend a million uvks and buy a warehouse, spend 300k on a flatbed, buy a banner welder... Fabric printer, why do you buy vinyl instead of buying a factory and making it yourself?
Buying from other countries is the same as buying from other shops.... It's just not same tomtry to do everything in house, and what's even more insane is if you were to call up 3m, tell them to shove it you're going to make your own vinyl... And not have a plan or an inkling of how to even do it. You'd go bankrupt in days.... USA has deeper pockets, but what trump is doing to USA is the same thing.... The only difference is he's hurting everyone around him while doing so.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
you create this circular conversation. Whether you don't know america very well or youre not old enough to remember when america produced its' own products.
Even your scenario is a joke.
I just did a google search...china has 81 semiconductor factories. the US has 732 semiconductor factories....
Its a wonder youre a success in your business if you're always looking for ways to fail.
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JBurton
Signtologist
Trump’s tariff blitz now exempting electrical goods like phones, laptops
The Trump administration is excluding imported smartphones, laptops, and other electronics from reciprocal tariffs — a decision expected to ease consumer concerns and deliver a win for major tech companies.
www.foxbusiness.com
Man, I just read through the last 3 pages to get caught up before making a comment, sometimes this place feels like a revolving door with all 8 of the folks participating in this thread having their moment to yell, but only hearing echoes of the last persons comment, and you're going to stand up and say 'i didn't read what you wrote but here's my opinion'.
I understand it's not nice to put words in others mouths and tell them how to act, but you just said you're plugging your ears and then giving unsolicited input. When talking to another person, it's best to make eye contact, listen to what they are saying, consider what you heard, then respond in a noninflammatory way as to both provide insight into your perspective and information that we can, as a whole, add to the conversation.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
From my understanding, Trump started placing RECIPROCAL tariffs on other countries. If Japan imposed a 700% tariff on rice, then Trump would impose a 700% tariff on a good we export to Japan. The intent was to get Japan to lower their rice tariff. Then he would reduce the tarifff we exported to Japan. (i'm using rice as an example only)This looks like backtracking. Is it? IDK, I'm not present in mr trumps noggin, but seeing as how a huge portion of what we import are electronic goods, and now we aren't going to place a tariff on them, but we said we would in order to boost domestic production, I'd call it backtracking.Trump’s tariff blitz now exempting electrical goods like phones, laptops
The Trump administration is excluding imported smartphones, laptops, and other electronics from reciprocal tariffs — a decision expected to ease consumer concerns and deliver a win for major tech companies.
170 countries have responded and are working with Trump on the reciprocal piece so that there's free trade with no tariff involved.
In the article it states that China imports 25% of all electronic goods in America. He's not placing a tariff on electronics. I don't know if that's actually "backtracking"...he's being selective with the tariffs.
And when a factory closes down, doesn't just sit there un used waiting for the work to come back? Or does it get repurposed into something new? Do you really think America has millions of factories waiting for someone to come utilize them?
America can have 5,000 semi conductor factories... The point is theyre not capable of producing the chips.
China tried to bring semi-conductors to China instead of Tawaiin... They released their own, domestically made CPU... and it was about 1/10 as good as the CPU's Taiwaiin makes. You guys can throw billions and billions of dollars at it (Like TSMC did) but even TSMC said they wont be able to produce the types of chips their Taiwaiin factory does.
Taiwaiin has been doing what theyve been doing for decades.... They have all the raw materials, talents, and equipment.... They know what theyre doing, USA doesn't. It'd take USA 20 years to get to the point Taiwaiin is at right now... And by then they'd be in taiwaiins dust again.
Now this is just ONE aspect of production that America wants to bring back - Add that to cars... There are specialty shops in Canada that USA CAN'T compete with. Look at Tesla - Like musk or not... The build qualities on Teslas are garbage - The panel gaps they have...all the recalls... Tesla doesn't make cars as good as Ford / Dodge / Any other company - Theres certain aspects that Canada does 100X better than America.... Thats why a single part will cross back and fourth in the border 20 times... America does what it specializes in... Canada does what it specializes in... Mexico does what it specializes in... If any one of those countries tried to do it all in house, they'd produce a subpar product.
Trump himself purchases all his Mega hats from Indonesia, china... Go walk into a Trump hotels gift shop and take a look at where stuff is made.... You don't need to be a genius to see why. 1 country, 1 company... 1 person, cant specialize in every single thing. Thats why there is outsourcing, thats why there is world trade.
I'm pretty successful in my business, thanks. But I don't look for ways to fail, I look for ways to prevent failures. I don't worry about paying an extra $1 a sqft for the shop down the street to do some fabric banners for me.... I dont try to bring it in house to save $5 and waste my time doing something I'm not good at - I focus on what I am good at...at let the other company do what theyre good at. It's bussiness 101. Any braindead person knows that, and thats why trump doesn't produce all his products in America...
You're not understanding. What Trump did isn't RECIPROCAL at all. He himself listed the formula - He took The value of what USA exported... Minus'd the value of what the country exported to USA... halfed it, then thats his "reciprocal" tarrif. It has nothing to do with the tarrifs the country applies to USA... And all to do with trade deficits...
You can google and get the formula, and do the math yourself if you truly want to understand how these tarrifs were calculated. You can even google and see how europe told trump they would remove ALL tarrifs if trump would remove all, to call his bluff...and trump said no, not good enough. This has nothing to do with tarrifs, and everything to do with "Trade imbalances" which makes it even more stupid.
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
and now i'm done. you've insulted me for the last time.
Saying you're not understanding is an insult to you? You literally said " from my understanding" which was completely wrong and not how these reciprocal tarrifs work.... I guess pointing out when someone is wrong is an insult... Especially since not 5 minutes ago you pretty much said I wasn't understanding how things working it's a wonder I'm a success in my business... Which is actually a personal attack, where is mine is just saying you were not understanding it correctly.
That's ok though, Im here for debates... To try to prove my point with links, articles... Actual proof. To either show people they're wrong, or to see in wrong and change my mind. I've held back saying it, but talking to you is like talking to a wall. Almost everything you say is just parotting what Trump says... There's no debating with you, some people just can't be reasoned with.
www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93gq72n7y1o.amp
I even googled it for you so you can understand why you were wrong about the "reciprocal" tariffs. BBC dummies it down and explains the formula, but you can get the formula on trumps press release if you think BBC is left wing / trying to make trump look bad.
CanuckSigns
Active Member
you can't logic someone out of a position they didn't use logic to come to in the first place.
MikePro
Active Member
you can also google "what is a reciprocal tariff". it pertains to the trade deficit, but "retaliatory tariff" is most likely what grammer you were attempting to correct despite not being the same thing.
JBurton
Signtologist
Gen Alpha says yes.
See, now this is an insult.
I just googled both and it gave me different initial results, neither of which really matched your result. At this point I don't think anybody should reference google results, as it evidently develops responses based on your prior search history.
MikePro
Active Member
ohhh weren't ppl upset about AI being brought into these arguments before? 
...but you're correct, the terminology gets muddied in the rabble.
"A reciprocal tariff is a trade policy where a country imposes tariffs on imports from another country at the same rate that the other country applies to its exports. It’s based on mutual agreement or mirroring trade terms to ensure fairness, often seen in trade negotiations or agreements.
A retaliatory tariff is a tariff imposed by a country in response to another country’s trade barriers, tariffs, or unfair practices. It’s a defensive or punitive measure, not necessarily matching the other country’s tariff rates, aimed at pressuring the other country to change its policies.
Key Difference: Reciprocal tariffs are about mutual, agreed-upon tariff levels to promote fair trade, while retaliatory tariffs are reactive, punitive measures to counter perceived trade injustices."
...but you're correct, the terminology gets muddied in the rabble.
"A reciprocal tariff is a trade policy where a country imposes tariffs on imports from another country at the same rate that the other country applies to its exports. It’s based on mutual agreement or mirroring trade terms to ensure fairness, often seen in trade negotiations or agreements.
A retaliatory tariff is a tariff imposed by a country in response to another country’s trade barriers, tariffs, or unfair practices. It’s a defensive or punitive measure, not necessarily matching the other country’s tariff rates, aimed at pressuring the other country to change its policies.
Key Difference: Reciprocal tariffs are about mutual, agreed-upon tariff levels to promote fair trade, while retaliatory tariffs are reactive, punitive measures to counter perceived trade injustices."
Geneva Olson
Expert Storyteller
yea.
first you didn't read any of the articles I DID post.
Then you told me canada didn't have a fentanyl problem with our border. literally the white house press secretary was on tv stating that was the exact reason they were discussing reciprocal tariffs with Canada. You can claim that i'm parroting trump, but I'm telling you what the press secretary said.
then you make a joke about rice when I'm clearly talking about the exhorbitant tariff that japan has placed on rice (700%). my comment never had anything to do with rice and had to do with the imbalance of tariffs that have been placed on america. i used the rice example and you got nuts in 2 or 3 posts about rice.
then you tell me i'm wrong about reciprocal because you don't know the difference between reciprocal and retalitory. thats ok. most liberals (and people who hate trump) think he's retalitory.
and double down by telling me "bbc dummied it down for you"
but somehow you think *I'M* the wall.
And what is the yearly output of those factories? Can you really not understand that one factory putting out a billion chips supplies a lot more than 100 putting out a few thousand each? China has entire cities just dedicated to producing one thing, not tiny factories.
If the US has so many factories, why do they import the majority of their chips from overseas? What about the capacitor and resistors, the PCBs, screens and all the other things that go to make a product?
You are obviously a Trump fangirl and will apologise for anything he has done, but the fact ALL the rest of the world can see is that he tried to bully other countries into paying tariffs and didn't realise they would just retaliate.
I don't think any amount of dumbing down would make you understand when you have your head stuck in the sand...
JamesLam
New Member
According to the kid running the drive-thru window recent events have been perpetrated by the Knights Templar. President Trump, through the defunding of USAID and the import tariffs, put the studio out of business. That explains why there wasn't a sequel.