Using the Nation's Flag in a design.

[Joe Diaz]

I had a customer stop in and request that we design his logo and signs. He wants his businesses name to sit over top of an image of the American Flag. He is not the first to request this. I want to steer him away from this primarily because text sitting over top of a high contrasting pattern of any kind is usually not very effective and difficult to read, but I also always felt using the American Flag as a backdrop for business's advertisement was slightly disrespectful. I'm not saying using the flag in conjunction with an advertisement is bad, at least I don't think so, I could be wrong, but placing content on top of it doesn't seem right. Anyway the guy says he was an Army Ranger, so I feel awkward sharing my opinion on this subject with him. I think I'm going to stick with the hard to read/contrast excuse and avoid talking about using the flag in a respectful manor, considering what he has done for this country. Instead I'm going to recommend some other things we can try that will still be patriotic looking without doing what he requested. Using the colors, stars, eagle, etc...

What are your thoughts?

 

[SignManiac]

I agree that lettering sitting on top will be too busy and distracting. Many other ways to get patriotism across.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Not sure if there is anything disrespectful about it.
Yes lettering on top of any image almost always makes a confusing design.
If you have to maybe you could mute the colors to make it work.

Knowing your caliber of work Joe I'm sure you will come up with an effective solution.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

According to this link about flag etiquette, I would say the answer would be no. You could use this to maybe convince him to go another route.
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml

 

[Salmoneye]

When used in conjunction with marketing, patriotism always seems like distasteful pandering to me. I think the use of religious symbols or scripture used in conjunction with business marketing of a non religious business feels the same way. Don't have a problem with either, just not with business.

 

[vid]

U.S Code, Title 4, Chapter1, Section 8(g & i)

...aside from that, I share the same feelings as you in both the design sense and implications of respect towards the use of the full featured flag in a layout --- especially a logo.

That's not to say I haven't used the iconography of the stars and bars in sign layouts for inference to the flag --- like using a waving flag in a Fourth of July sale banner, or a star or two and red ribbons as elements in logo-ish layouts. But to me, most of what I've seen using the flag as a major element of a logo or layout reeks of bad cheese.

Years ago, another designer and I got onto a discussion/rant about even using the Statue of Liberty in advertising. An ad with lady liberty holding a can of oil sparked the conversation. We both felt the imagery bordered too much on parody and political statement to be an effective advertising gimmick. It was good humor, but bad PR.


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As you noted, there are any number of ways to draft that same sense of patriotism without strictly using the flag. To that end, I'd guess that you could pay your respects to the client by sharing your concerns about the use of flag in such a fashion.

​

 

[SignManiac]

I can't help but notice that around election time, most all politicians use red white and blue on there campaign signs. Doesn't seem to bother them very much. So any logo with those colors would be conveying some form of patriotism.

 

[J Hill Designs]

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

this one makes me laugh...USA flag napkins/plates etc are in every store

 

[SignManiac]

True but only because they originated from China!

 

[SignManiac]

Is bunting considered disrespectful? It's used on July 4th on fences and parade floats and gets disposed of afterwards? We're opening up a can of red, white and blue worms here

 

[Joe Diaz]

According to this link about flag etiquette, I would say the answer would be no. You could use this to maybe convince him to go another route.
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml

Wow! yeah, I thought I might have been prudish with this whole flag thing. I knew most of those, but some are the first time I'm hearing about it. How does the US Olympic teams get away with some of the stuff they do?

When used in conjunction with marketing, patriotism always seems like distasteful pandering to me. I think the use of religious symbols or scripture used in conjunction with business marketing of a non religious business feels the same way. Don't have a problem with either, just not with business.

I don't always see it as pandering, some times I do, in fact I made a design for a client that I felt was pandering, and against my better judgment did a design that was bordering on parody, like the scenario Vid brought up. The business closed a few years later, I regretfully feel as though I played a part by not standing up to the client's demands. It just didn't fit, and didn't feel right, I think that is why I'm a bit sensitive to this subject now that yet another client is asking for something using the American Flag in this way.

But I feel like most other people aren't pandering, they are simply wearing their pride on their sleeve. They see it as being a part of their day to day life, and so why shouldn't be apart of their business. I'm almost positive that is the case with this customer I'm working with now. But how do you tell a guy who risked his life for this nation to not use our flag in that way. Hopefully my contrast/easy to read excuse will be enough.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Is bunting considered disrespectful? It's used on July 4th on fences and parade floats and gets disposed of afterwards? We're opening up a can of red, white and blue worms here

Technically it's not the Flag. That's my opinion though.

 

[bob]

Use it or not but pay no attention to the constant rabble citing this or that quote of flag etiquette or general whining about 'disrespect'. It just a pattern. Is someone has a problem with it, and of course someone will, it's their problem, not yours. They can deal with it. Don't tiptoe along worrying whether you might be offending someone on your journey through life. In fact, one day you'll be of an age where offending people, or at least making them uncomfortable, becomes one of the few reliable sources of entertainment left to you. Revel in it.

I always thought that Dairy Queen was missing a bet in not using the statue of liberty as part of their advertising. It's unclear whether the lady is holding a torch or an ice cream cone.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Use it or not but pay no attention to the constant rabble citing this or that quote of flag etiquette or general whining about 'disrespect'. It just a pattern. Is someone has a problem with it, and of course someone will, it's their problem, not yours. They can deal with it. Don't tiptoe along worrying whether you might be offending someone on your journey through life.

That might be the case, but since part of our job is to create something that is designed to appeal to the masses, some thought and reflection on this subject may be appropriate, don't you think?

 

[Marlene]

bunting works better for layouts as you can have the colors and the look. I've used it for American Legion type signs and it works pretty good. and yes, do pay attention to the do and do not use of the flag. it all comes down respect and there's nothing ever wrong with respect

 

[Salmoneye]

That might be the case, but since part of our job is to create something that is designed to appeal to the masses, some thought and reflection on this subject may be appropriate, don't you think?

That's a great response. We use a tag line in our advertising that says "Keeping an eye on your image." That means trying to avoid a faux-pas that they might regret as well as trying to appeal to their entire potential customer base when we can. It's sometimes difficult to view something from the new customer's perspective without injecting only our personal thoughts on a subject. We have a large project right now and I know that my personal tastes do not fall in line with the masses on this one so we are utilizing some outside expertise.

 

[nikdoobs]

Okay, that link with the American Flag Etiquette is kind of a joke.

The flag should not be used for any decoration in general.

yet the whole site is decorated with American Flags. (The Header, The side menu, even the little line underneath where it says "American Flag Etiquette")

 

[bob]

That might be the case, but since part of our job is to create something that is designed to appeal to the masses, some thought and reflection on this subject may be appropriate, don't you think?

No, I don't think so.

While appealing to the masses might be part of your job, it's most certainly not part of mine. The only people to which appealing is a concern to me are those paying the bill. The rest can be appealed to or not or simply go pound sand, their choice.

If I do something for a client and someone who sees it is sufficiently incensed to back a truck over them or something, it was the client's choice to put it out there. Shrug.

 

[Joe Diaz]

No, I don't think so.

While appealing to the masses might be part of your job, it's most certainly not part of mine. The only people to which appealing is a concern to me are those paying the bill. The rest can be appealed to or not or simply go pound sand, their choice.

If I do something for a client and someone who sees it is sufficiently incensed to back a truck over them or something, it was the client's choice to put it out there. Shrug.

Well it is a part of our job. I can respect it not being a part of your's. I guess the difference between us is that I understand that if a client is conscious of their customers' tastes and promotes their business accordingly, they have a better chance of being successful. I have also found that a client that is more successful is more likely to return and hire us to do more work. Our best clients have and most likely always will be the repeat customers. But that's our business. I recognize that not all businesses are run the same way. I'm sure there are plenty out there that have done quite will with the "one and done" mentality. It just doesn't fit for us.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Okay, that link with the American Flag Etiquette is kind of a joke.

yet the whole site is decorated with American Flags. (The Header, The side menu, even the little line underneath where it says "American Flag Etiquette")

LOL. Good point.