usually I outsource CNC work, but considering buying a 40" x 40" are they easy to learn?

[depps74]

I been cutting vinyl letters for almost 15 years now, printing for about 5. Got a big job which to outsource would cost about $1800, a 40x 40" machine seems to go on the low end for $500.

My question is what is the learning curve on these? I know plotter cutting frontwards and backwards, printing took me about a year or two and I am resigned that I will never really understand some parts of a printer. but a CNC seems like a logical next step for a plotter inclined person. Also wondering what kind of software is the standard? I use Cutmaster pro for my Graphtec, and wondering if its a similar workflow?

 

[netsol]

there is A LOT to learn, but, certainly worth learning

you already grasp the basic concept of expressing things in XY coordinates

i watched a series of videos done by garrett fromme of IDC woodcraft, to wrap my head around the whole thing

he now has a weekly session with a girl who has a sign business ) on wednesday nights

some of it is a little too simplistic, but, you can decide after a couple hours of videos if this is for you

we got started by watching a few of these youtube videos & now i have added an alignment laser to mycnc so i can contour cut our flatbed printed items, either with router or donek dragknife

so, the short answer is GIVE IT A TRY

 

[White Haus]

Personally I'd keep outsourcing until you have the demand/volume to get a decent sized machine. 40" x 40" bed won't do you much good (not even half a sheet), and I wouldn't trust a $500 CNC for professional work.

Just my thoughts - I don't have a ton of CNC experience either other than battling with our Summa F1612 every other day but if/when I get the chance to outsource acrylic letters I jump at the opportunity to sub them out to Gemini.

 

[JBurton]

Key question for buying for a single job, what is the material you're previously outsourcing?
If it's something like .25" aluminum, you don't want to waste that material learning how to run a CNC. If it's ACM, go for it. You'll eventually learn how to cut .25" al, but you will likely also find that your outsourced CNC can do it all in 8 hours, and you need more like 40 hours to do it on a smaller table with lower speeds, lower HP, and likely a clamping table instead of a vacuum.

 

[netsol]

Key question for buying for a single job, what is the material you're previously outsourcing?
If it's something like .25" aluminum, you don't want to waste that material learning how to run a CNC. If it's ACM, go for it. You'll eventually learn how to cut .25" al, but you will likely also find that your outsourced CNC can do it all in 8 hours, and you need more like 40 hours to do it on a smaller table with lower speeds, lower HP, and likely a clamping table instead of a vacuum.

but it's such fun, welding your bit to the work, while trying to make sense of the feeds & speeds tables

 

[JBurton]

but it's such fun, welding your bit to the work, while trying to make sense of the feeds & speeds tables

So true, but I'd hate to walk depps here into a situation where he thinks a $500 router will knock out stainless steel letters in an afternoon!

 

[GC Decor]

I would keep out sourcing, to get clean cuts in plastic & metal your looking at $50k + for a starter Cnc Router package. A good router system will include its own software for operation. The big thing with cnc routers is the tolerances, you want to be able to load your machine & let the machine do the work. Budget systems wont have the tolerance to make a clean cut, sure you can cut metal but there will be countless hours of clean up. We ran over 20 Cnc machines at one time & a quality machine is the only way to go. 4x8 would be a must as well or your gonna be dealing with tons of waste & half cut sheets - Most bulk sheets are 4x8 or larger.

 

[depps74]

but it's such fun, welding your bit to the work, while trying to make sense of the feeds & speeds ta

Key question for buying for a single job, what is the material you're previously outsourcing?
If it's something like .25" aluminum, you don't want to waste that material learning how to run a CNC. If it's ACM, go for it. You'll eventually learn how to cut .25" al, but you will likely also find that your outsourced CNC can do it all in 8 hours, and you need more like 40 hours to do it on a smaller table with lower speeds, lower HP, and likely a clamping table instead of a vacuum.

Material I am cutting is PVC / CINTRA 1/4" and 1/2"

 

[depps74]

Key question for buying for a single job, what is the material you're previously outsourcing?
If it's something like .25" aluminum, you don't want to waste that material learning how to run a CNC. If it's ACM, go for it. You'll eventually learn how to cut .25" al, but you will likely also find that your outsourced CNC can do it all in 8 hours, and you need more like 40 hours to do it on a smaller table with lower speeds, lower HP, and likely a clamping table instead of a vacuum.

Cintra / PVC no metals just plastic, wood, soft stuff

 

[MFA]

I bought my Shopbot off of Craigslist. I had some experience running a Multicam at another shop. It took me a while to find something local for under 10k and it took me a while to set up because I’m a one person outfit. I made my money back on my first job. I agree you should get the biggest machine you can accommodate in your shop and not an odd size that won’t handle your material efficiently. I still order from Gemini but if I want to do something custom, I can do it.
If you’re a small shop the considerations may be different than a shop with 20 machines.

 

[JaySea20]

I think that getting an inexpensive unit would be a great learning experience. It should give you some insight on which capabilities you should focus on when you buy a commercial unit.
IMHO, the most important part of CNC work is having a good solid hold down. And if done properly, you really dont need one of these large expensive vacuums. I operate a gerber sabre 408 ( 4' x 8' ) and use a $150 shopvac for the table vac. It works great.

 

[Advertise IT]

I been cutting vinyl letters for almost 15 years now, printing for about 5. Got a big job which to outsource would cost about $1800, a 40x 40" machine seems to go on the low end for $500.

My question is what is the learning curve on these? I know plotter cutting frontwards and backwards, printing took me about a year or two and I am resigned that I will never really understand some parts of a printer. but a CNC seems like a logical next step for a plotter inclined person. Also wondering what kind of software is the standard? I use Cutmaster pro for my Graphtec, and wondering if its a similar workflow?

Looking to outsource as well do you mind sharing your outsource

 

[JBurton]

Cintra / PVC no metals just plastic, wood, soft stuff

For PVC and sintra, a cheepy would work. Polycarbonate is pretty tough to cut, but acrylics are fairly easy. I'd tell you at minimum you need vacuum hold down and 1.5hp spindle. Plus some software to make files (sheetcam is the best value, hands down). I'd say buy a used one and play with it, but not everybody has time to sink into playing with a used one.
Maybe a different perspective is in order, how much $ did you spend in outsourced work last year? How many sheets do you reckon that used? Can you get that many sheets delivered for the amount you spent last year? You may find the wholesaler is going to win regardless as he gets a quantity discount that you can't touch. Or you may find that you'd only potentially gain $3k a year for all the effort to get a router setup and running, and now you have to clean your shop all the time!

 

[fixtureman]

Figure at least $600 for the software to make your cut files reliably

 

[ikarasu]

PVC / Sintra is more picky then aluminum, imo. We cut it at a faster spindle / feed rate to get the cleanest cut. So a cheapo $400 CNC that likely uses a handheld router may not do the best work.


I'm all for cheapo devices - I just bought a 10k laser, I bought a cheap $250 3d printer.... I've bought cheap $2000 printers to fix up. It's fun, but for a professional environment...you spend more time on optimizing your cheap machine / fixing it and learning how to work it, than you do on making money with it.

It may only cost you $500 for the CNC. But then you need to buy a bit, you need to buy the material you're cutting, you need to spend countless hours learning a new tool, maybe upgrading the cheap parts they put on it. It's not going to be a "I just saved $1500", you'll likely spend more money in resources than you'd save if you're just basing it on the one project.

If you want a cool toy, and want to learn on a cheap $400 router before you buy a 7tk router, so all your wear and tear and loose moments go towards breaking a cheap machine... It's worth it, so long as you go into it knowing that when it breaks (and it will) you'll be right back to outsourcing

 

[JBurton]

Figure at least $600 for the software to make your cut files reliably

Not true! In fact, my high dollar enroute and vectric programs could not handle mist commands, nor acceleration commands. The folks at SheetCam were kind enough to run through about 20 iterations of my post just to get those commands added, and didn't charge me any additional fees to do it, just the one time purchase price of £110.00. Let that sink in, these two big outfits SAi and Vectric, were unable to include mist commands, and both are subscription based!

 

[netsol]

JBURTON
i can say a lot of good things about flexisign, HOWEVER when they drop the ball, they do it like no one else

not every tech support call has a happy ending

my original plan was to go enroute, since we use flexi, it seemed to be the perfect solution, like just adding another piece of software from adobe master collection. well, real life isn't always that way

 

[JBurton]

JBURTON
i can say a lot of good things about flexisign, HOWEVER when they drop the ball, they do it like no one else

not every tech support call has a happy ending

my original plan was to go enroute, since we use flexi, it seemed to be the perfect solution, like just adding another piece of software from adobe master collection. well, real life isn't always that way

I highly recommend sheetcam to anybody that will listen. Les is the programmer (or whole operation afaik), and he is quick to reply, even considering he's in the UK. The program is much simpler than enroute, as far as setting up a sheet and tools and strategies (wtf is a strategy?). Sheetcam lets you run something bigger than the sheet, lets you change start points, do drill operations, and has a gui that's very much late 90's/early 00's with zero frills.
What was your problem with enroute?

 

[Zendavor Signs]

We have a high-end Multicam with numerous bells and whistles....and we still outsource a fair amount. It just doesn't make sense to do in house all CNC work. If you are looking for a semi-professional grade machine, look at Shopbot. Otherwise you will be spending $40k+ for a decent entry level machine. If you are a 1-person shop, you will have a hard time with ROI on a CNC machine.