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Need Help UV Flatbed Recommendations

Isaac_K

New Member
Looking for some recommendations on which direction we should go for our next purchase. We are replacing 2x aging hybrid UV printers and are looking to increase throughput.

Daily volume/jobs:
- 90% 4x8 4mm boards - mainly corrugated, foam, pvc
- 30-40 4x8 impressions/day with the occasional 50-100+ 4x8 impression orders that we end up spreading over several shifts.

Looking for a minimum speed of 20 boards per hour with decent quality. Think "indoor signage plus" with 4 color CMYK. Max budget is $250k but prefer to keep it around $150k. By no means do we need gallery quality prints. Our wide format production schedule is 90% ready within 24 hours and even offset orders are largely within 24-48 hours. Speed and ability to price competitively takes priority by a long shot. In terms of quality, we are running indoor signage plus at 600x600 with no quality complaints from customers.

While we can certainly keep up with normal volumes on our current equipment we find ourselves turning away larger jobs. Usually due to the inability to match requested in-hands dates.

The following options are being considered:
- Digitech ST/LT -- machine seems to be very fast with good/sellable quality but price point is high. no California customers yet from what I know. Unsure how this will play out in terms of service.
- Mimaki jfx600 or 2x jfx500 -- we have several mimaki machines and have had good experiences with them. there's also local techs we can rely on once warranty expires. 3rd party ink's are usually readily available as well. Price point on the 600 is high.
- 2x Stratojet 2512 or 3216 -- machine is much slower...real world estimates at 14 boards an hour. Huge plus is that the main headquarters is 20 minutes from us and general consensus is that service is very quick and responsive.
- Vanguard ??? -- Have not looked into this manufacturer yet but have heard the name mentioned with generally favorable comments.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
Lets be real here.

When you're doing volume,
You want 1 printer, not 2.
2 printers mean 2x maintenance, 2x consumables, 2x the space etc. that seems stupid. Especially buying 2x low end machines.

Buying a volume machine, yes the price is high. the machine itself are higher quality, more print heads etc. basically get what you pay for.

I would suck it up and buy the Digitech.
The mimaki JFX600 would be okay also.
Consider:
Canon Arizona 6100 Mark II. 24 boards an hour in production. having 2x zones to fit 2x 4x8 boards, there's no down time from loading and unloading.
 

MarkSnelling

Mark Snelling - Hasco Graphics
Look at www.FluidColor.com They have 126" hybrids which you can load up with Ricoh Gen 6 heads and get just under 20 boards an hour in Production Mode (where most of the customers print...there's also high quality and Express modes). This unit with two rows of CMYK+W is going to put you all-in around $155K (delivered, inked up, trained. For a true 5x10 flatbed, it is a few bucks less expensive. No service contracts...many fixes you can do on your own. Great service and support when you can't do it on your own. I don't sell these units out in California but you should give them a look. I'm happy to have a conversation should you want to and put you in touch with people who can actually quote you on the unit.
 

Isaac_K

New Member
Lets be real here.

When you're doing volume,
You want 1 printer, not 2.
2 printers mean 2x maintenance, 2x consumables, 2x the space etc. that seems stupid. Especially buying 2x low end machines.

Buying a volume machine, yes the price is high. the machine itself are higher quality, more print heads etc. basically get what you pay for.

I would suck it up and buy the Digitech.
The mimaki JFX600 would be okay also.
Consider:
Canon Arizona 6100 Mark II. 24 boards an hour in production. having 2x zones to fit 2x 4x8 boards, there's no down time from loading and unloading.
Great points to consider. The reason we're considering 2x cheaper units is for redundancy. Being a quick turn shop, we don't have the luxury of buying out when equipment goes down.

That Arizona 6100 series looks amazing. Any idea what the starting price is on those units?
 

parrott

New Member
I second the Digitech comment. Yes they are more expensive but you paying for quality built machines. We are coming up on year 3 with ours and close to 3 million square feet printed. We have had ZERO service calls. That blows my damn mind!

Great company and cannot say enough good stuff about them. I know they have a tech that lives in Vegas so support is not too far away. But who needs a tech when you don’t have service calls. Lol.

They will literally train you on anything you need to know. Very simple, fast and reliable machine.
 

MarkSnelling

Mark Snelling - Hasco Graphics
Great points to consider. The reason we're considering 2x cheaper units is for redundancy. Being a quick turn shop, we don't have the luxury of buying out when equipment goes down.

That Arizona 6100 series looks amazing. Any idea what the starting price is on those units?
The Arizona 6100 is a great unit for sure. It comes in a few flavors....for just the machine it starts out at around $444K and tops out at $525K...but then you have to add in a bunch of stuff on top of the machine (ink kit, required accessories, etc. and freight and training...those all add up to about another $40K on top.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
Great points to consider. The reason we're considering 2x cheaper units is for redundancy. Being a quick turn shop, we don't have the luxury of buying out when equipment goes down.

That Arizona 6100 series looks amazing. Any idea what the starting price is on those units?
It's a little ironic.
The low end machines tent to have more issues than the production equivalent

2x flatbed will cost you more in the long run.
1x high volume flatbed, lower electricity, lower ink pricing, less consumables etc.

Start the conversion with Digitech. Those guys are super cool.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
The Arizona 6100 is a great unit for sure. It comes in a few flavors....for just the machine it starts out at around $444K and tops out at $525K...but then you have to add in a bunch of stuff on top of the machine (ink kit, required accessories, etc. and freight and training...those all add up to about another $40K on top.
ink kit? what accessories?

I know you need a high volume compressor to run the airbearings.
 

MarkSnelling

Mark Snelling - Hasco Graphics
ink kit? what accessories?

I know you need a high volume compressor to run the airbearings.
There are required accessories like the starter kit, vacuum pumps, ink, duster air filter, ink/flush kit, etc. I don't know why they are listed seperately from the machine if you need to have them. Lastly, shipping the units are very expensive and they charge over $15K to deliver and install...plus a few days of IPAK training.
 

Isaac_K

New Member
The Arizona 6100 is a great unit for sure. It comes in a few flavors....for just the machine it starts out at around $444K and tops out at $525K...but then you have to add in a bunch of stuff on top of the machine (ink kit, required accessories, etc. and freight and training...those all add up to about another $40K on top.
Yup, way too pricey for our needs/budget. Thanks for the info.
 

Isaac_K

New Member
It's a little ironic.
The low end machines tent to have more issues than the production equivalent

2x flatbed will cost you more in the long run.
1x high volume flatbed, lower electricity, lower ink pricing, less consumables etc.

Start the conversion with Digitech. Those guys are super cool.
Reached out to them and waiting for a response. LTX2 is too much for us. Hoping the ST or LT might be more in line with our needs and budget.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
Reached out to them and waiting for a response. LTX2 is too much for us. Hoping the ST or LT might be more in line with our needs and budget.
I dont see the ST. but the LT is the LT/X2 with single heads to it's also upgradable to the X2 at any time.
 

parrott

New Member
Reached out to them and waiting for a response. LTX2 is too much for us. Hoping the ST or LT might be more in line with our needs and budget.
I went there with the intention to buy the LT. Talked me into buying the LTX2 and it was the best decision I have made. It was a leap for us but I trusted Digitech and the product they have made. It is an absolute work horse that will change your business. We have quickly grown into possibly needing another one in the near future.

You could start with 4 (or 5) heads and upgrade down the road. But I am telling you, you will not regret maxing it out. Buy for future capacity not current capacity.
 
I will say Digitech has been pretty great. We got a deal on an older model Retrojet that they made, which does 20 boards an hour. Customer service has been excellent, we knew buying a used machine would have some issues with old components. They have been great with getting us back up and running every time.

It may be worth calling Digitech and asking them if they have one or know someone who has a Retrojet that is looking to upgrade.
 

CMYKprnt

New Member
Looking for some recommendations on which direction we should go for our next purchase. We are replacing 2x aging hybrid UV printers and are looking to increase throughput.

Daily volume/jobs:
- 90% 4x8 4mm boards - mainly corrugated, foam, pvc
- 30-40 4x8 impressions/day with the occasional 50-100+ 4x8 impression orders that we end up spreading over several shifts.

Looking for a minimum speed of 20 boards per hour with decent quality. Think "indoor signage plus" with 4 color CMYK. Max budget is $250k but prefer to keep it around $150k. By no means do we need gallery quality prints. Our wide format production schedule is 90% ready within 24 hours and even offset orders are largely within 24-48 hours. Speed and ability to price competitively takes priority by a long shot. In terms of quality, we are running indoor signage plus at 600x600 with no quality complaints from customers.

While we can certainly keep up with normal volumes on our current equipment we find ourselves turning away larger jobs. Usually due to the inability to match requested in-hands dates.

The following options are being considered:
- Digitech ST/LT -- machine seems to be very fast with good/sellable quality but price point is high. no California customers yet from what I know. Unsure how this will play out in terms of service.
- Mimaki jfx600 or 2x jfx500 -- we have several mimaki machines and have had good experiences with them. there's also local techs we can rely on once warranty expires. 3rd party ink's are usually readily available as well. Price point on the 600 is high.
- 2x Stratojet 2512 or 3216 -- machine is much slower...real world estimates at 14 boards an hour. Huge plus is that the main headquarters is 20 minutes from us and general consensus is that service is very quick and responsive.
- Vanguard ??? -- Have not looked into this manufacturer yet but have heard the name mentioned with generally favorable comments.
I am a little late to this thread but I am going to DEMAND that you look at DIGITECH. The Digitech is hands down the best investment that any print owner can make!

WHY?
- Resale value, First and Foremost - This printer is built to last 10 years (excluding heads) minimum. There is nothing on the market that is a better VALUE, NOTHING! I am sure 4 years from now I can get 75%+ what I paid for my printer.
- Print Speeds - you can go from 20 beds an hour up to 60 beds an hour - we average 50 beds an hour on ours - A hybrid cannot compete with the true flatbed digitech.
- Print Quality - as good as anything on the market
- Reliability - I have had mine for 8 months and ZERO issues. You will not find that with any other OEM, guranteed.
- ZERO Service Contract - they do not offer one and you don't need one. That alone will most likely make up the difference in price.
-Sips Ink
-You can take jobs with confidence knowing you will get it done on time and it will be profitable.

I will never buy any other printer - You're stupid if you buy anything else. I don't care what you print. Really!
 

Kbrecken

New Member
Looking for some recommendations on which direction we should go for our next purchase. We are replacing 2x aging hybrid UV printers and are looking to increase throughput.

Daily volume/jobs:
- 90% 4x8 4mm boards - mainly corrugated, foam, pvc
- 30-40 4x8 impressions/day with the occasional 50-100+ 4x8 impression orders that we end up spreading over several shifts.

Looking for a minimum speed of 20 boards per hour with decent quality. Think "indoor signage plus" with 4 color CMYK. Max budget is $250k but prefer to keep it around $150k. By no means do we need gallery quality prints. Our wide format production schedule is 90% ready within 24 hours and even offset orders are largely within 24-48 hours. Speed and ability to price competitively takes priority by a long shot. In terms of quality, we are running indoor signage plus at 600x600 with no quality complaints from customers.

While we can certainly keep up with normal volumes on our current equipment we find ourselves turning away larger jobs. Usually due to the inability to match requested in-hands dates.

The following options are being considered:
- Digitech ST/LT -- machine seems to be very fast with good/sellable quality but price point is high. no California customers yet from what I know. Unsure how this will play out in terms of service.
- Mimaki jfx600 or 2x jfx500 -- we have several mimaki machines and have had good experiences with them. there's also local techs we can rely on once warranty expires. 3rd party ink's are usually readily available as well. Price point on the 600 is high.
- 2x Stratojet 2512 or 3216 -- machine is much slower...real world estimates at 14 boards an hour. Huge plus is that the main headquarters is 20 minutes from us and general consensus is that service is very quick and responsive.
- Vanguard ??? -- Have not looked into this manufacturer yet but have heard the name mentioned with generally favorable comments.
How about a new or refurbished Gandy Digital Pred8tor or Domin8tor ? can't hurt to check them out,
 

CMYKENGINEERING

New Member
Hi Isaac,
Since you're in the SoCal area, consider vising our Los Angeles office. We sell the excellent Sova UV flatbeds. They don't have the name recognition yet, but they are close competitors to Digitech's machines and for the price, Oce/Fuji/Vanguard don't compare. I think you will be extremely impressed with what you see.

You can also contact us at info@cmykengineering.com to find out more.
 
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