uv ink adhesion?

[froggys]

how durable is the uv ink?
do you need to prep the surface on everything?
scratch resistance?
flexibility?
the machine we are looking at comes with nazdar ink.

thanks
william

 

[SignManiac]

Why not ask the machine manufacturer for samples and test yourself?

 

[froggys]

uv ink adhesion

the manufacturer will tell me whatever i want to hear but i want know from someone who is using it every day & sees what happens to after the customer has the product.
thanks
william

 

[jdigital]

It's hard to say. There are a lot of specifics that need to be addressed (ie. carriage speed, UV lamp power settings and what type of material you print on.) Typically the slower the print speed the better the cure. But again that depends on the UV power. (ie. High, medium, low)

What type of machine are you thinking of purchasing? What type of heads does it have? Are their different types of Nazdar inks for UV. I know FujiFilmSericol makes two types For Inca Flatbeds. one is more flexible than the other but you lose more color gamut.

I guess it all depends on the user. You always have to test each material you print on and decide what settings will work best.

 

[MilanoGuru]

We actually printed on Carpet the other day for a company with out UV ink. Came out great. Ill upload pics later. as Far as preping, on Substrates and other flats we use Iso Alcohal and wipe it clean. everything else its cake to print on

Steve

 

[froggys]

we are looking at a zund 215, durst rho 205 & a hp scitex veejet
but we are leaning more to the zund.
does anyone know anything about them?

i know there is alot of variables in the adhesion question but i was just wondering in general.

thanks
william

 

[Mspec]

Adhesion will vary from device to device based on the ink formulation, some systems require corona treating to print on coroplast, some do not. Some inks will have great adhesion, but poor flexibility. ( will stick to just about anything, but your banners will crack ) abrasion resistance also falls into the same catagory, in some applications you may wind up putting a laminate over the print for abrasion protection. Like SM said up top, your best bet is to give a handful of random samples to whomever you are buying from and see how that particular device holds up on the substrates you plan on running, YMMV depending on the surface energy of the material you choose to run.

 

[jdigital]

we are looking at a zund 215, durst rho 205 & a hp scitex veejet
but we are leaning more to the zund.
does anyone know anything about them?

i know there is alot of variables in the adhesion question but i was just wondering in general.

thanks
william

We used to have a Zund 215+. Not very fast. It was also hard to keep the heads clean and ink mist would dry on the surface because there wasn't proper shielding from the UV lamps. We had ours for 4 years. Many other issues happened during it's lifetime. It's an OK machine if you get a newer one, but I would not recommend it. Zund does not support that printer anymore. Their sticking to the cutting machines

 

[Dani Plotter]

Adhesion will vary from device to device based on the ink formulation, some systems require corona treating to print on coroplast, some do not. Some inks will have great adhesion, but poor flexibility. ( will stick to just about anything, but your banners will crack ) abrasion resistance also falls into the same catagory, in some applications you may wind up putting a laminate over the print for abrasion protection. Like SM said up top, your best bet is to give a handful of random samples to whomever you are buying from and see how that particular device holds up on the substrates you plan on running, YMMV depending on the surface energy of the material you choose to run.

I agree 100%. Many printers Brands has his own contract with an ink manufacturer and the adhesion deppends the combination between UV lamps and Ink formulation (print head, velocity, etc). Supposedly they have test that ink with their UV lamps with many medias before releasing the machine on the market but sometimes the results are not desired

We improved the adhesion of ink changing the UV lamps and the ink in our printers. Best that you can do is test the machine with your samples and your job files.

 

[benjercorp]

UV Machines like dilli 1606 will print on everything remember the process of how UV inks works...

 

[jdigital]

That's correct. Any UV printer will print on anything, it's the adhesion factor that need to be tested. You can print on glass, but will it stick? Most likely, NO. I've printed on many substrates from ceiling tiles to scrap plywood with great adhesion but glass is a whole new science.

 

[Tony Teveris]

I think you should gather your materials, images etc and send / bring them to a manufacturer and watch the machine print. Just like test driving a new car. At Gerber we are doing it all the time.

 

[jens]

sun chemical uv isn't sticking on glass.
sericol inks ?
ink tec is making a new kind uv ink that would stick on glass... lets hope..

 

[jdigital]

sericol is making an ink that is more flexible, but I haven't seen any samples, especially on glass.

 

[digitalsolutionsok]

I would go with Tony on this one. Hey check the catonic inks I find them to have a little beter adhesion and flexibility....

Like everyone else is saying it has everything to do with the lamps,speed, and pass control. When purchasing a flatbed you really need to put all the cards on the table, do some real life testing with print samples and distributors or manufactures that will let you come and test drive there machine.

Look at it this way before you settle for the cheaper Kia just b/c of the price or warranty make sure you drive the chevy, cadillac, and the Bentley....

Good Luck

 

[DoubleDown]

There is a whole world of UV ink adhesion the machine manufacturers will not tell you. There is a reason that Sericol has a whole line of adhesion promotors for UV inks for different materials. It will print on anything but it will not stick to anything. We've done thousands of materials, and some coro will come off easily, glass is a no-no unless you get a specific type of glass, aluminum can come off easily if not prepped, etc, etc.

The other option is profiles, if you want better color, you put down more ink...but with UV, it will lie to you and it will look cured but really it's just the top layer curing and not all the way through, so you want get good adhesion to the substrate. You have to find the fine line between good color and good adhesion, it's a give and take.

I would go with the Durst, one of the best machines out there hands down...I know huge companies that would scrap their 4 Vutek's UV in 2 secs before they ever had to scrap their one Durst.

 

[10sacer]

Also be aware that - like file size vs. resolution of scanned images - you can get one thing but will sacrifice another. In this case - there is no ONE UV ink that will print, adhere, be flexible, withstand cutting AND give accurate color. You need to decide what key materials you will be printing on and find a printer that provides ACCEPTABLE levels of all of the above. I can get alot of UV printers to print on glass, I can get a few to actually stick on glass, but guess what - the color is horrible because you have to basically bake out the color gamut of the ink to get it to stick. Decide what you can least afford to live without. Remember that if you have to go through the tedious process of manually wiping each sheet with alcohol, adhesion promoter or some other mixture that you are INCREASING your cycle time. What the manufacturer said would take 5 minutes to print now takes 10 minutes to print because of the extra manual labor and drying time involved. This effectively DECREASES your boards per hour ratio.

There is no ONE UV printer/lamp/ink combo that will print/adhere to everything. Doesn't exist.

 

[synergy_jim]

Has anyone gotten UV print to stick on Melamine ????

 

[miltondavis]

synergy Jim-
I don't know the UV adhesion to melamine resin, but I was wondering if your trying to print to a laminate like "wilsonart" or floor laminate (vertical or postform)? I have a project I'm applying psa vinyls to wilsonart laminate and wondered if UV ink would stick to the surface as well?

 

[synergy_jim]

we do a ton of POP graphics. We already have the ability to have custom high pressure laminates printed with full color graphics that are extremely durable. The problem is we need to be able to do one off's and print to 3/4" cabinet grade melamine material for some of these items. Melamine prints awesome, but the scratch resistance is not that great, and in POP, thats no good....

In a perfect world, I would just order high pressure laminates for all this, but there are minimums and insane lead times....