Suggestions UV Printing

[billsines]

Hello, I am a signmaker by trade, but have recently entered the world of UV printing with a Stratojet Shark FB1212. I'm hoping it proves to be an asset to our current lineup of products.

So what I do is generate generic sign layouts in photoshop/illustrator. The kind of products we sell are wall decor/home decor types of signs for general public consumption. For instance, I make a 5.75"x8" sign that says "Coffee: Always a Good Idea", you know, generic home decor type stuff. Then I send it over to my printer to print multiple pieces of this sign.

So what I'm trying to do is increase the number of parts per hour I can generate. I have tried playing with the resolution in caldera. I currently have two profiles loaded by the printer manufacturer, 600x600 and 600x900. So when I RIP the artwork, 600x600 over to the print controller, I can go with 4pass, 8pass, etc. 600x900 allows 6pass, 12pass, etc. I have tried developing my own 300x300 profile, which allows 2pass option, but I can't get the density needed out of my ink. Strangely, 300x300 allows a 4 pass option, but the ink density seems to be the same. 300x300 does give me a faster print time, but a faded and light print.

So I'm back to artwork set up. Are there other settings in photoshop I can use that will somehow allow a faster print time? Any other ideas?

 

[Gino]

Is there any particular reason you need to do these little signs printed faster ?? Top speed like that is generally for low end temporary crap. The size sign you mentioned, we could print in about 3 minutes at a good mode. It'll take more time to set it all up, then anything else.

The other possibility is to gang a bunch up at once and print a few across and get more bang for your buck.

 

[billsines]

We do gang them. I have a tray that holds 40 pcs and we print the whole table. Last order I had was for 2500 pcs and the order before that was for about 5000 pcs. Volume is the name of the game in my arena. We manufacture for distributors that wholesale to the retailers. So we are a few steps back from the final customer. Just trying to figure out how to put out more parts per hour without buying another piece of equipment.

 

[Pauly]

Do you understand the whole concept with passes and resolution?

The higher the resolution the more passes as the dots are smaller and needs more passes to make the ink dense.
The lower the resolution the less passes it needs as the dots are bigger. But you risk colour gamut and quality.

In simple terms:
Faster it prints, the lower quality and colour gamut you'll get.
The slower it prints, the higher quality better colour gamut you'll get.
And yes, with less passes you can lose density and the print can appear grainy.

 

[Gino]

Yep, sounds like you have the wrong equipment for your application needs. All you're gonna do is give a less quality product, unless you get a faster machine.

I believe your machine is a 4' x 4' table. Some of the larger ones can print 15 and 20 4 x 8's an hour and still give a good production quality print. With that many pieces, I'm sure you are working with pennies, so you hafta be careful, someone doesn't blow you away with a faster setup for a better quality piece.

 

[ChrisN]

Hello, I am a signmaker by trade, but have recently entered the world of UV printing with a Stratojet Shark FB1212. I'm hoping it proves to be an asset to our current lineup of products.

So what I do is generate generic sign layouts in photoshop/illustrator. The kind of products we sell are wall decor/home decor types of signs for general public consumption. For instance, I make a 5.75"x8" sign that says "Coffee: Always a Good Idea", you know, generic home decor type stuff. Then I send it over to my printer to print multiple pieces of this sign.

So what I'm trying to do is increase the number of parts per hour I can generate. I have tried playing with the resolution in caldera. I currently have two profiles loaded by the printer manufacturer, 600x600 and 600x900. So when I RIP the artwork, 600x600 over to the print controller, I can go with 4pass, 8pass, etc. 600x900 allows 6pass, 12pass, etc. I have tried developing my own 300x300 profile, which allows 2pass option, but I can't get the density needed out of my ink. Strangely, 300x300 allows a 4 pass option, but the ink density seems to be the same. 300x300 does give me a faster print time, but a faded and light print.

So I'm back to artwork set up. Are there other settings in photoshop I can use that will somehow allow a faster print time? Any other ideas?

No photoshop settings will make it print faster. Buy a bigger printer, or install more print heads in yours. Even a printer identical to yours except having a 4x8 bed will produce more pieces per hour. The amount of time spent moving the gantry is more than the amount of time spent moving the print carriage back and forth.

 

[billsines]

We're talking dollars here. Of course I can get a faster machine for over 100k, but how long till I break even?

In our CNC department, we figured out how to increase hourly output very significantly with little extra labor. As a business owner, I firmly believe that questioning the status quo is what has helped us become successful. People say "you can't do that" and over and over again I challenge that question, whether it's with the CNCs, the lasers, any of our finishing equipment, whatever. So all I'm doing here is researching the same thing: is there anyway around the limitations? Settings in Caldera? Settings in photoshop? What about keeping this machine and changing print heads? Will the machine physically move faster?

I love proving people wrong when they say you can't do that. Maybe I can't get any more out of this machine, but if you are a business owner, you should always be thinking this way: how do I get around the limitations in a cost effective way?

 

[Gino]

Don't blow a gasket over this.

If you are speaking in terms of getting a few minutes less, then it's quite possible. We did that with our Roland by writing new profiles, but it wasn't anything spectacular. You went from making a sign 5.75 x 8 to making literally 1,000s of them in a manner of minutes.

I would think you are trying to get time tables down considerably, but if you wanna say the things you say about being a business owner, then give us all the facts up front. Don't make this like pulling teeth outta your head.

Breaking even has nothing to do with the facts, especially if you got the wrong one to start with. If you need to knock out 2,500 signs a day, then you look for a machine that can do that. You build your machinery around your needs. You don't buy a slow machine and think you can do a 'Tim Allan' on it and super-charge it into a Binford.

• So, what is your present machine's output TIME at a good production rate ??
• What TIME do you want to eventually meet ??
• What's your available space presently ??
• Do you have room to grow ??

Status Quo can always be altered, but something will most likely give..... and it's usually quality.

 

[Pauly]

We're talking dollars here. Of course I can get a faster machine for over 100k, but how long till I break even?

In our CNC department, we figured out how to increase hourly output very significantly with little extra labor. As a business owner, I firmly believe that questioning the status quo is what has helped us become successful. People say "you can't do that" and over and over again I challenge that question, whether it's with the CNCs, the lasers, any of our finishing equipment, whatever. So all I'm doing here is researching the same thing: is there anyway around the limitations? Settings in Caldera? Settings in photoshop? What about keeping this machine and changing print heads? Will the machine physically move faster?

I love proving people wrong when they say you can't do that. Maybe I can't get any more out of this machine, but if you are a business owner, you should always be thinking this way: how do I get around the limitations in a cost effective way?

I am a business owner. I'm pretty sure Gino is too.

I have experimented with many custom media profiles to see if i can print quicker, not that i really need to though.

The bottom line is - The faster your print, The less of quality you'll get. That's that. no way around it.

You can go to lengths to make the printer use put down the biggest dots in the smallest amount of passes. But as i have already said, the less of passes you do, the less ink you get on the media, the more grainy it'll look as the dots are large and the less density you'll get because there's less of a chance of the dots to cover enough of the media.

I cannot explain it any more simple.


If your flatbed cannot keep up with the work and the pile gets bigger, honestly, i would be selling or trading that printer in for something like a 1.2 x 2.4m (usually 2.5m) or in your language a 4' x 8' if you plan on high volume.
90% of things i print would not fit on your flatbed. i have a 2.5m x 3m machine. id line up 240 pieces and print them in 40 mins at my usual higher quality speeds. your 2500 i could do in a day. & we're not a production print house either.
If i wanted to turn the machine to 11, i'd get the 240 done in 20 mins. But then i'd sacrifice quality, Not something i would do for a product that's not disposable.

 

[billsines]

Thanks Pauly, that helps a lot. What machine do you have that is getting that kind of output? I'm assuming the 240 pcs in 40 mins is the size I gave as an example...5.75x8?

Gino, to answer your question, I am able to do about 40 of those signs in about 17 minutes. Any increase in time would help, obviously, but I would like to theoretically get that number to 60 signs in 17 minutes. Space, I could scrounge about 1000-1500sf out of my current facility.

Thank you for the time, I really appreciate it. It's one thing as a business owner, you never stop learning, that's for sure.

As a side note, what kind of signage do you generate? I do have a few side jobs for a totally different industry. I make the store signage for a coffee shop that has 6 locations. Is there a standard price structure for this kind of signage? Good questions for a different thread?

Thanks again,
Bill

 

[Gino]

Yeah, at a good quality print, I'd have between 5.5 to 6.5 hours in it for 2,500..... and we're no speed demons.

So, you're at about 18 hours. Yep, that's not good if you're set up for that and that's all ya can do. You really think you can almost do 50% faster without giving up quality by re-writing something ?? Like you, I always wanna increase my bottom line to my advantage, without sacrificing anything for the customer.

 

[JJGraphics]

I too really enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to make something work better, or make a machine do something that the manufacturer hadn't considered.

My experience thus far in this industry is that very few companies design machines for field upgrades or that have different options that can be retrofitted to increase speed, print size, etc. It more seems to be the older, mechanical machines that can be upgraded/modified. (changing out motors for more rpm's, adjusting pulleys, etc.)

I think whoever sold you that 4' x 4' machine didn't do a good job of matching your needs to the equipment, or perhaps they didn't have all the data they needed to help you make an informed decision.

What's cheaper? a night crew or a faster machine? Could your new machine handle running 18+ hours a day? What's the consumables cost per print on this machine vs a bigger machine?

 

[ChrisN]

Thanks Pauly, that helps a lot. What machine do you have that is getting that kind of output? I'm assuming the 240 pcs in 40 mins is the size I gave as an example...5.75x8?

Our CET Q5-1000 (5'x10' flatbed) will print a 4'x8' sheet at production (6 pass) speeds in around 10 minutes. So in just a 4'x8' area, we could fit 2 of your 40 pc jigs to make 80 pieces every 15 minutes (accounting for load/unload times, etc.). Plus, I can bump the passes down to 4, or even 3 or 2 pass depending what quality I'm going for.

 

[Pauly]

Thanks Pauly, that helps a lot. What machine do you have that is getting that kind of output? I'm assuming the 240 pcs in 40 mins is the size I gave as an example...5.75x8?

Gino, to answer your question, I am able to do about 40 of those signs in about 17 minutes. Any increase in time would help, obviously, but I would like to theoretically get that number to 60 signs in 17 minutes. Space, I could scrounge about 1000-1500sf out of my current facility.

Thank you for the time, I really appreciate it. It's one thing as a business owner, you never stop learning, that's for sure.

As a side note, what kind of signage do you generate? I do have a few side jobs for a totally different industry. I make the store signage for a coffee shop that has 6 locations. Is there a standard price structure for this kind of signage? Good questions for a different thread?

Thanks again,
Bill

I have a Oce Arizona 480XT. It has 8 print heads. each print head is actually 2 print heads so technically there's 16. The older ones had single heads. There are faster ones out there like the 660 or the new 2280. they both have 16 double print heads (so 32) but it's 2 rows. I wanted the 660 originally but canon, yes canon talked me out of it and told me for what i want id rather the 480. having 2 rows of heads it can cause more banding issues over time.

Yes 40 mins to do the 5.75x8. That's including 10 mins to load and unload. and assuming it's got no white backing. If it has white add another 10 minutes or so. normal print speed i'll do a 1220mm x 2440mm (4x8) sheet in 10 mins.

As a business owner, you need to be on top of your game. You need to know more than the employees do.

Do a search on pricing. There's a thread i started not to long ago about it. and it's spoken about quite a bit.