UV prints and transfer tape

[Scotchbrite]

We just purchased our first UV printer, a Mimaki UCJV300. I printed on 3M 2080 Gloss Fire Blue film and cut some numbers. It needs transfer tape for applying the numbers. We used medium tack and the transfer tape will pull the UV print off the 2080 vinyl before it pulls the numbers off the backing paper.

Is this a common problem and is there a solution?

The only 2 things I could think of are laminating the print or using low tack tape but I wanted to hear if there were any other experiences.

 

[Boudica]

We tape all of our UV printed substrates that get CNC cut. We had the issue of ink coming up with our old Flatbed (HP Scitex), but not as much with our Agfa Annapurna. That said - we always let it sit and cure for a good 24-48 hours before taping. Also - maybe use a lower tac tape like you said.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

From the 2080 bulletin:

It's not designed to be a printable film... however we have successfully printed on 1080 for a custom wrap in the past with a solvent machine.

 

[Scotchbrite]

We tape all of our UV printed substrates that get CNC cut. We had the issue of ink coming up with our old Flatbed (HP Scitex), but not as much with our Agfa Annapurna. That said - we always let it sit and cure for a good 24-48 hours before taping. Also - maybe use a lower tac tape like you said.

So maybe letting it sit does matter. I have another print we did a few weeks ago that I just tested and the transfer tape did not pull the ink off.

From the 2080 bulletin:

View attachment 163358

It's not designed to be a printable film... however we have successfully printed on 1080 for a custom wrap in the past with a solvent machine.

I just checked and technically Gloss Blue Fire is a 1080 film, but I was wondering if maybe the film might be the issue.

 

[GC Decor]

"So maybe letting it sit does matter. I have another print we did a few weeks ago that I just tested and the transfer tape did not pull the ink off."

UV ink will only cure when being hit by Direct UV light. Once your print is off your printer its done curing, you can adjust your UV curing on most machines in the settings. Leaving it for days will not help a uncured print.

3M 2080 Gloss Fire Blue film is not a printable film - Any type of printing on 2080 will fail because its not intended for printing. 3M offers several Films and Vinyl's that are UV printable.

 

[DL Signs]

Just because a UV will print on just about anything doesn't mean it'll adhere. Colored wrap films that fall into the 1080, 2080, and other series are because the vinyl and adhesive properties are the same, not print-ability. They aren't coated for print, they're coated with a lam to repel contaminates, salt, chemicals, etc, and offer protection to prevent fading when they're laid on a vehicle, which also makes it hard for ink to stick to. Solvent inks etch, so they can sometimes work on these vinyls when they probably shouldn't, and those would have to be laminated yet again, making just a printed & laminated graphic on vinyl designed to print on a better choice. If you can't hit the color the wrap film has, and it has to be that, overlaying other graphics on top of wrap film rather than trying to print to it is usually the happy medium. There are all kinds of different adhesion promoters, primers, different ink series for UV's for different uses, and even those won't guarantee desirable adhesion on substrates not designed for print. It just don't make this stuff easy...

 

[Ronny Axelsson]

UV inks, properly cured, should normally adhere well to vinyls, if the surface is clean.
Try wiping with alcohol before printing to see if it makes any difference.
I've found that white ink (which I suspect you are using on this rather dark blue) is a lot easier to peel off than CMYK and varnish, probably due to larger pigments and higher viscosity.
Try printing a layer of cyan (for example) or varnish (does the Mimaki UCJV300 have varnish?) under the white, to get a "primer" layer?

Stupid question perhaps but did you remove the "protective film layer" before printing?

 

[Scotchbrite]

This film is 1080 so it doesn't have the protective film. Reminds me of the aluminum we used to get with a clear covering; had many a newby stick vinyl letters on aluminum panels without removing the film first.

This particular print has white and black print. It's only the black that is peeling off, the white stuck down fine. In the pictures below, you can see not all of the black is coming off. It might be more due to how thin the black print is that's peeling off.

 

[signheremd]

Have you considered putting a laminate on it before cutting or masking? Other than that, you can increase the lamp intensity a little to help cure better - note that too much causes the UV ink to become brittle. Personally, I would laminate with a thin optically clear/gloss like Briteline WrapCast Optically Clear overlaminate or 3M 8518 or 8528.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Have you considered putting a laminate on it before cutting or masking? Other than that, you can increase the lamp intensity a little to help cure better - note that too much causes the UV ink to become brittle. Personally, I would laminate with a thin optically clear/gloss like Briteline WrapCast Optically Clear overlaminate or 3M 8518 or 8528.

Laminate is what I was thinking might be the best solution.

 

[Ronny Axelsson]

I doubt laminating would be a good idea in this case. The black ink will probably come off anyway and the black and laminate lift from the blue on the edges.
Maybe the cutting line is creating some tension to the edge, just enough to make the black start lifting, and then the tape is doing the rest?

Like I said, UV inks normally adhere well to vinyls and even though I haven't tried 3M 1080 or 2080, I believe it should work even though they don't recommend it.
The fact that some parts stick while others loosen indicates that there might be something on the vinyl, so I suggest wiping it off with alcohol or similar before printing.

Must say I'm a bit surprised the white sticks while black doesn't.
What happens if you switch black and white, I mean to get thin white lines and solid black areas.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Could you just cut the black drop shadows and do a two layer install like the good old days?

That's how we have been doing them. I was trying to utilize our new printer to accomplish the same thing. Plus the matte and gloss contrast looks cool.

I don't know that we'll print on 1080/2080 much. When we bought the printer I thought "we NEVER print on anything over 54" so I might as well save some money and get the -130 instead of the -160." So now in order to print on the 1080/2080, I have to cut about 6" off to feed it thru the machine.

 

[DL Signs]

I'd just print white vinyl with the blue & black, laminate it, cut it, and call it a day. Cheap, quick & easy, no adhesion issues... You just won't get UV inks to stick to already laminated colored wrap vinyl, they're not meant for printing. Even if you do get it to stick long enough to apply, if it starts peeling off first time something rubs against it, you'll probably have to re-do it at even more expense.

 

[Scotchbrite]

3m 3630 black is matte! Don't know how flat your application is though. I'm sure there is a matte black in the 2080 series too.

I feel your pain. When we got our first registration mark job, we discovered our fc8600-130 would accept 60" material no problem, would it cut 60", f*ck no. Luckily insurance paid for most of the 160 after the whole fire in the print room ordeal...

3630 costs more, we always use 7725 matte black.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Say wha? Didn't realize it came in matte in that series. Though it boggles the mind how the translucent black that is opaque cost more than the opaque black. Now I wonder if duranodic comes in a matte in 7725...

I've wondered about that for years. Why would anyone by "translucent" matte black when you can get the regular stuff for less? Some day it would be interesting to hear what a 3M rep would say, but I've never thought to ask.

 

[ikarasu]

The black is a thicker layer than the white, so it peels off easier - it takes longer to "Cure".

And just so people dont understand... UV ink Dries instantly, it does not cure instantly.

https://www.nazdar.com/en-us/News-Articles/ArtMID/4197/ArticleID/567 Read this article by nazdar - They're a ink supplier for UV, Screen printing, solvent printers, and a few others... So they should know what theyre talking about.

I'm sure if you dig up the manuals on your flatbed printer it'll say the same thing - Dry to the touch, cures fully in a few days. It doesnt have its strongest bond initially... So yes, waiting a few days, or however long a full cure for your inkset takes, will make it adhere better and you'll have a less likely chance of it pulling the ink off.

Theres no harm in shipping a sign off minutes after its printed - But on some materials... like acyrlics and certain plastics (Like vinyls) A few days will give it more time to bond, and make it less scratchable.

Print something on acyrlic, or something you normally get scratches on if you're not super careful - let it sit for a couple days, then reprint it...and do a scratch test. you'll be amazed at how much that bit of extra time allowed it to bond better, and how much more scratch resistant it is.

 

[Scotchbrite]

I did reprint a couple of days ago and waited to put tape on it until today and I could peel the tape off without losing any black.