Vinyl failing on sheet metal

[gnubler]

I had a walk in recently who need a few sq feet of vinyl for temporary use on a trailer for a parade. Said it was being installed on flat metal, so I gave her some old Oracal 651 I was never going to use.
Today I get the call that it's not sticking at all. I asked the usual questions...make sure it's squeaky clean using IPA, no Windex, make sure it's dry. She sent a few pictures and it's literally peeling off the surface - see image.
Is this powdercoated sheeting? She told me it's a smooth surface, but that doesn't look smooth to me. I'm guessing that's the issue and nothing will stick to it. Let me know if you know the issue here so I can pass it on to the customer. Thanks.

 

[DL Signs]

She said it was smooth? That's textured, either powder coated, or has an architectural coating on it. You'll need a low energy high tack vinyl to stick to that, depending on what it's actually coated with.

 

[2B]

that look powder coated with a mini-textured finished

Vinyl on Corrugated Metal Building Peeling/Shrinking

Hey guys, about 6 months ago we installed some vinyl on a new corrugated metal building. The customer mentioned to us that the vinyl was already starting to peel on the edges and when I went to the location to see how bad, it's bad... I'm wondering what caused the vinyl to fail like this? We did...

www.signs101.com

 

[gnubler]

Thanks, I remember that thread. I figured it was a surface issue and not the vinyl. Told the customer I'll give her a strip of cast vinyl to try and that if it doesn't stick, nothing will.

Does this same issue happen on textured metal surfaces, like you see on some convenience store ice coolers and restaurant equipment? I think there was a thread about that somewhere.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Thanks, I remember that thread. I figured it was a surface issue and not the vinyl. Told the customer I'll give her a strip of cast vinyl to try and that if it doesn't stick, nothing will.

Does this same issue happen on textured metal surfaces, like you see on some convenience store ice coolers and restaurant equipment? I think there was a thread about that somewhere.

It's because of the powder coating, which is made from polymer resin, and it has excellent anti-stick / anti-stain properties. Combine that with a black trailer in the sun, and you'll be lucky if it has the holding power of static cling. Wrap film "might" work, but most likely you would need a high tack film -- designed for low energy surfaces. General Formulations 201HTAP comes to mind...

 

[Johnny Best]

Most of those ice coolers use stucco embossed aluminum.

 

[Michael-Nola]

That surface looks HIGHLY textured in the picture. Way more textured than powder coating from what I see? If you handed me that picture and asked me what that material was I'd say ABS lol not steel or metal at all! Gauge your customer, they may just say "metal" when they mean "any commerical flat surface". But, they may actually mean metal!
Trailers are built cheap as heck, so I don't see most common builds using embossed metal panels. Especially not BLACK embossed panels.
Parade trailers are home-built level of cheap, so having ABS sides is actually in the realm of possibility.
Whether it's ABS or a coating, clearly it's a low adherence surface. Even rough metal like that should tack with adhesive WAY better than the examples you posted. Metal would lift or gently fall away, but that is COMPLETELY not adhering at all. It's literally rejecting the surface as if it's an oil-based substrate.

Best product for them? No idea! High tack stuff has a real mixed bag of results.
Cast will get you FAR more adherance when you apply with force and even more with any sort of heat or sun. But that's not really "temporary pricing" unless it's a small coverage job.
Cheap calendared vinyl with high tack might stick for a bit. But removal for short term use? Suspect! If it's actually ABS then I bet you can go as aggressive adhesive as you want and it will remove cleanly, even more so if it's short life application.

I guess if it's supposed to be short life then you have no other option then high tack cheap calendared garbage. If it's ABS like I have loosely guessed? Then use like the max tack you can get. Floor permanent stuff. Vinyl, not polyester or anything else. Don't laminate if it's installable at their size.

 

[MarkSnelling]

We've got a film which has a high coat weight and high tack which tends to work on tough surfaces like this. Called Omni Print. Sticks to brick, most powder coated materials, concrete....54"x150' is $310.

 

[Stacey K]

Maybe a banner would be more cost effective for the parade and then they can reuse it for next year. Depends on the cost of the high tack vinyl and how quickly you can get it.

 

[Gino]

Can anyone explain why the lightweight painter's tape is holding far better than 651 ?? When looking at the bottom, it looks dirty as all get-out.

We letter lotsa powder coated signs. Never a problem from calendared to cast to air egress printables.

 

[DL Signs]

Way more textured than powder coating from what I see

Two of our local customers do powder coating, they do smooth, fine to heavy textured, wrinkle & krinkle finishes, hammered finish... the possibilities are endless.

 

[gnubler]

Interesting comments, thanks everyone.
This was just a walk in person who wanted some vinyl scraps for a parade trailer so I just gave her some old 651. Looks like they're doing some kind of striping so I don't think a banner would help them. I didn't ask, and don't care...they're probably SOL on this one.

Reminds me of when I tried putting cut vinyl on some Yeti coolers. Tried both calendared and cast, peeled right off like a Post It note. I ended up using hi-tack printed floor vinyl and they adhered good enough.

 

[DL Signs]

Reminds me of when I tried putting cut vinyl on some Yeti coolers. Tried both calendared and cast, peeled right off like a Post It note. I ended up using hi-tack printed floor vinyl and they adhered good enough.

You ever do those Yeti's again, try flame treating them first. Still need aggressive vinyl, but it seems to help on some of the uber-problematic plastics.