Vinyl for color change

[msheurs]

This is my first post on here. Ive been wrapping cars for color change for a couple years. Ive used alot of 3m 1080, some 970ra and even less Avery. Im planning on wrapping my personal car and want to get some opinions on preference in material for quality first and ease of installation second.

My business is window tinting and in that industry ive found 3m to be flawed in some way or another. Ive had good luck using 3m's vinyls, customers know them, its easy to use and seems to hold up well. I felt that Oracal had better options in colors and has a better looking vinyl especially in gloss. Avery makes a paint protection material that i think is the best in the industry. Leads me to think theyd put the same quality in their vinyl. the only color ive used from them is gloss black, maybe 10 yards of roofs and what not.

The problem is i dont really know anything of longevity over 2-3 years for any of these brands. I live in southern california and the sun can be pretty intense. i really want to narrow down the better brand first then choose a color from there. thanks for the help!

 

[msheurs]

so no one really cares about what they use as long as the price point is good??

 

[Haakon]

I don't think anyone can comment on longevity over 2-3 years on these vinyls, when they just about have been around for that long? Do you want answers on how 1080i holds up after 5-6 years? 1080 is about 2 years old, 970RA as well, Avery Supreme Wrap came out last year?

You are asking people to see into the future and give feedback. Don't know really how anyone can help you with this question.

 

[Graphiki]

We use Avery for most of our wraps.
Just started using their solid colours.
They lay down great. Any of these products are should be good for three years. Although no one gives a warranty for horizontal surfaces only vertical.

 

[msheurs]

I don't think anyone can comment on longevity over 2-3 years on these vinyls, when they just about have been around for that long? Do you want answers on how 1080i holds up after 5-6 years? 1080 is about 2 years old, 970RA as well, Avery Supreme Wrap came out last year?

You are asking people to see into the future and give feedback. Don't know really how anyone can help you with this question.

i appreciate any sort of input on this. some of you guys have been working with these companies for decades. i did mention that ive only been using vinyls for a couple years. guess i didnt catch that got into it just after they were all released.

knowing that they are newer lines of product maybe i can get some manufacturer preference. maybe some people have seen problems already within these two years. thats why im here man. :Welcome:

 

[brian_fellers]

MSHEURS:

I actually sell all 3 of these brands (3M1080, Oracal 970/975, and Avery 900 Supreme Wrapping Film). We also sell Ritrama which is an Italian based company. 3M1080 does dominate the market with their wrapping films, but the Oracal 970 films are dramatically increasing in popularity as well. Most of my customers use the 3M1080, however, that is most likely because 3M markets their products better than anybody. In other words, if I request 1080 samples to show to my clients, 3M will send me a BOX of 50+. If I request that from Oracal or Avery, I get 5-10 at most. So, 3M does great in that aspect of it. Personally, I really like the Oracal 970 & 975 films, and that would be my personal preference. The 975 films (carbon fiber, honeycomb, etc.) are about 10% more cost than the 1080 carbon films, but the 970 films (colors) are pretty much the same price as 1080 colors. I like the fact that Oracal is a German based company.......as we all know, the Germans manufacture and invent great products. All in all, all 3 of these companies offer a great product, for around the same price range.

In regards to longevity, my market place is South Florida. The sun is very intense here, with lost of humidity. As Graphiki said, all warranty info refers to vertical (sides of vehicle), not horizontal (top of car). I have plenty of customers who have removed 1080 films from cars that were wrapped with it back in 09-10, with no problems removing, and the film in good condition still. I've also seen 1080 carbon fiber on the hood of vehicle that started cracking slightly, and was around 2 years old. It depends, if application films are installed EXACTLY according to manufacturer instructions, then the films will also last longer. Also, always instruct your customer to NEVER wax their car with any carnuba based waxes. This will dry out the film, thus shortening it's life span. The vertical parts of the vehicle "should" last a good 5 years in South Florida. Probably longer in other parts of the country. It has not been tested obviously since it's not that old yet, however, when they claim a warranty the consumer in this case is just "trusting" the manufacturer when it comes to warranty. When you look at the older wrap products by 3M, Oracal, and Avery, and you look at how long they have lasted in weather conditions, then I guess you just assume they know what they are talking about when it comes to warranty claims on their newest products. Obviously, there are also many other manufacturers out there too, but 3M, Oracal, and Avery are the elite of all of them, in my opinion.

 

[brian_fellers]

HAAKON:

I work with the sales reps from 3M, Avery, and Oracal. All 3 of these companies have BETA testing on their products up to 2 years before it's released. 2 of my customers do BETA testing on 3M 1080 films prior to their release. Matter of fact, get ready for the new 3M1080 color coming out.............should be announced soon.

Point is, they do "test" these product long before they release it. I also know of certain finishes that never passed the "testing", and were never released.

Rule of thumb......stay away from the Chinese wrap films, and you should be alright!

 

[Haakon]

I do agree that using one of the better, well know brands will most likely give you least issues over time. I wrapped my old car in 1080 matte green immediately after the series was released here in Europe (september 2011). Chose this for the colour alone, since I have used 970RA on most other wraps.

Oracal is indeed German, and over here this reflects positively in pricing. Oracal is the cheapest of these, 1080 is 40% more expensive and Avery is nearly double the price of Oracal. For regular colours. 975 is cheaper than 1080 in carbon and brushed finishes.

3M 85 series (predecessor to 1080) was pulled from the market in under a year from release over here, reason of glue failure. All coloured film was pulled, only black and white had no issues. Was actually told by the 3M distributor to either go for 180 series (with visible comply "squares") or just go for another brand.. 1080 seems like a very nice vinyl though. Maybe a tiny bit easier to work with than 970? It seems thinner, even if the specs are alike, Oracal needs to be worked a bit harder. But both give very nice end results.

Quick question on Oracal 975. Does it come with air release now? Or just "regular" glue?

 

[msheurs]

good info! i really like that oracal is a german company also and avery seems to have a good thing going
i agree with the testing. with window films and paint protection films i hear about all sorts of accelerated tests manufacturers and installers can do to to get first hand knowledge on what theyre selling. is there any sort of accelerated testing for vinyl?

 

[HulkSmash]

MSHEURS:

I actually sell all 3 of these brands (3M1080, Oracal 970/975, and Avery 900 Supreme Wrapping Film). We also sell Ritrama which is an Italian based company. 3M1080 does dominate the market with their wrapping films, but the Oracal 970 films are dramatically increasing in popularity as well. Most of my customers use the 3M1080, however, that is most likely because 3M markets their products better than anybody. In other words, if I request 1080 samples to show to my clients, 3M will send me a BOX of 50+. If I request that from Oracal or Avery, I get 5-10 at most. So, 3M does great in that aspect of it. Personally, I really like the Oracal 970 & 975 films, and that would be my personal preference. The 975 films (carbon fiber, honeycomb, etc.) are about 10% more cost than the 1080 carbon films, but the 970 films (colors) are pretty much the same price as 1080 colors. I like the fact that Oracal is a German based company.......as we all know, the Germans manufacture and invent great products. All in all, all 3 of these companies offer a great product, for around the same price range.

In regards to longevity, my market place is South Florida. The sun is very intense here, with lost of humidity. As Graphiki said, all warranty info refers to vertical (sides of vehicle), not horizontal (top of car). I have plenty of customers who have removed 1080 films from cars that were wrapped with it back in 09-10, with no problems removing, and the film in good condition still. I've also seen 1080 carbon fiber on the hood of vehicle that started cracking slightly, and was around 2 years old. It depends, if application films are installed EXACTLY according to manufacturer instructions, then the films will also last longer. Also, always instruct your customer to NEVER wax their car with any carnuba based waxes. This will dry out the film, thus shortening it's life span. The vertical parts of the vehicle "should" last a good 5 years in South Florida. Probably longer in other parts of the country. It has not been tested obviously since it's not that old yet, however, when they claim a warranty the consumer in this case is just "trusting" the manufacturer when it comes to warranty. When you look at the older wrap products by 3M, Oracal, and Avery, and you look at how long they have lasted in weather conditions, then I guess you just assume they know what they are talking about when it comes to warranty claims on their newest products. Obviously, there are also many other manufacturers out there too, but 3M, Oracal, and Avery are the elite of all of them, in my opinion.

Let me know if you want any pricing info on any of these films. What area are you in?

3M doesn't dominate the color'd market.. at all.

 

[msheurs]

i think in terms of customer brand recognition, they do

 

[msheurs]

MSHEURS:

I actually sell all 3 of these brands (3M1080, Oracal 970/975, and Avery 900 Supreme Wrapping Film). We also sell Ritrama which is an Italian based company. 3M1080 does dominate the market with their wrapping films, but the Oracal 970 films are dramatically increasing in popularity as well. Most of my customers use the 3M1080, however, that is most likely because 3M markets their products better than anybody. In other words, if I request 1080 samples to show to my clients, 3M will send me a BOX of 50+. If I request that from Oracal or Avery, I get 5-10 at most. So, 3M does great in that aspect of it. Personally, I really like the Oracal 970 & 975 films, and that would be my personal preference. The 975 films (carbon fiber, honeycomb, etc.) are about 10% more cost than the 1080 carbon films, but the 970 films (colors) are pretty much the same price as 1080 colors. I like the fact that Oracal is a German based company.......as we all know, the Germans manufacture and invent great products. All in all, all 3 of these companies offer a great product, for around the same price range.

In regards to longevity, my market place is South Florida. The sun is very intense here, with lost of humidity. As Graphiki said, all warranty info refers to vertical (sides of vehicle), not horizontal (top of car). I have plenty of customers who have removed 1080 films from cars that were wrapped with it back in 09-10, with no problems removing, and the film in good condition still. I've also seen 1080 carbon fiber on the hood of vehicle that started cracking slightly, and was around 2 years old. It depends, if application films are installed EXACTLY according to manufacturer instructions, then the films will also last longer. Also, always instruct your customer to NEVER wax their car with any carnuba based waxes. This will dry out the film, thus shortening it's life span. The vertical parts of the vehicle "should" last a good 5 years in South Florida. Probably longer in other parts of the country. It has not been tested obviously since it's not that old yet, however, when they claim a warranty the consumer in this case is just "trusting" the manufacturer when it comes to warranty. When you look at the older wrap products by 3M, Oracal, and Avery, and you look at how long they have lasted in weather conditions, then I guess you just assume they know what they are talking about when it comes to warranty claims on their newest products. Obviously, there are also many other manufacturers out there too, but 3M, Oracal, and Avery are the elite of all of them, in my opinion.

Let me know if you want any pricing info on any of these films. What area are you in?

im in san diego. i usually buy from fellers or montroy. i have to look but i think its 3m, oracal then avery...highest to lowest price. pm me your prices tho

 

[brian_fellers]

Haakon:

Yes, Oracal uses an air release liner now. It's the same adhesive they put on the newest 3751RA digital film.

 

[brian_fellers]

Pat White:
Sorry, I'm actually brand new to this forum, as of today actually. Maybe there are some rules I should read? I actually DO work as a sales rep for Fellers, but I'm not here to push any products, I was only commenting on what I see in the market down here, trying to help msheur in his initial post.

 

[brian_fellers]

Coloradosigns:

Sorry, I should have clarified. 3M absolutely DOES dominate the market place.......in South Florida! I can't speak for where you are. I know that Oracal dominates in California. Just depends on where you live I suppose.

 

[brian_fellers]

Again, new to this. Thanks for the input though. I'm truly just here to help, and to also learn. I worked in the industry for 8+ years prior to becoming a sales rep, and I still continue to learn new things weekly. No more "pushing products" from this guy!

 

[WrapZone]

At our company we have been working almost exclusively with Orafol/Oracal 970GRA for the past 5 years if the customer isn't requesting something else. I have been please with it and liked it mainly because of the finish of the surface and ability to block the original color of the car, I feel that 3M is to thin and many times the color of the vinyl isn´t blocking the color underneath enough.

Things are changing for us now, for the past year the quality of Oracal has been very uneven and the vinyl has been acting very differently from time to time and Oracal denying any changes in the adhesive etc just to admit it months later.
Now my company is active in Sweden and is one of the leading vehicle wrapping companies over here with focus on advanced wraps and high end cars so we have pretty high requirements.
The sales reps claim that they have a 2 year beta test period is not true (atleast not in Europe unless we get to be lab rats) since we constantly get variations of air release patterns and adhesives which proves they try them out in the market way to early.

We have been testing Hexis for a while now, at first the quality was a little uneven but it feels like they have getten their stuff together and the vinyl works pretty well.

Tried the Arlon last week, it ha s a really nice finish to it but can easili be heated to much to get marks in it due to the lamination.

 

[Gino]

bdyer32.......

You would probably do yourself a great deal of service by becoming a Merchant Member here at :signs101:, however much good that would do you.

Fellers is discussed quite a bit on this forum and many here are already users of Frank's great company/products. Pushing your wares and trolling for new accounts is kinda frowned upon.

Hopin' to see a Merchant Members tag under your name real soon. :Welcome:​

 

[brian_fellers]

Thanks for the advice Gino. Not sure what's even involved in becoming a Merchant Member, but I'll look into. I honestly wasn't even trying to troll for new accounts, I have plenty already, and stay very busy!! I love to read, I learn from it, and I also love to be helpful, and offer advice on products, etc., which is why I joined this forum. I'll keep in mind what you said, on my next future post! Thanks again!