Vinyl not sticking to bus interior?

[Accelerated Graphics]

I did some decals to be installed inside of schools buses. They called today and told me they won't stick to the walls of the International brand buses. Has anyone run across this?
Vinyl is oracal 651

 

[2B]

are they new buses?

if so I would be willing to bet what was used was a low or no VOC paint.
[FONT=&quot]Zero- and low VOC paints composition makes it difficult for anything to adhere to it. These are also classified as stain resistant, easy to clean and/or scrub able, etc...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If it is low or zero VOC then vinyl will not adhere correctly and either the wall will have to be prepped differently.[/FONT]

 

[J Hill Designs]

...or the interior is low-energy plastic

 

[nikdoobs]

... or kids are pulling off the vinyl

 

[chester215]

...... or they cleaned the surface previously with a cleaner or something that left a residue.

 

[Billct2]

Yep, what's the surface?

 

[afarraway]

... or kids are pulling off the vinyl

Darn Kids!

 

[Accelerated Graphics]

The surface is plastic of some sort, I can't get the bus company on the phone. Even if it would stick there are ribs in the plastic that will make it harder to install.
They picked the color and size so they won't fit any where else... Looks like we will get to sell them more..

 

[reQ]

Even if it would stick there are ribs in the plastic that will make it harder to install.

sounds like low energy plastic to me

 

[Billct2]

Yep, they'll need to flame treat to get them to stick. new ones should be made with the appropriate vinyl.

 

[Phil Swanson]

Yep, they'll need to flame treat to get them to stick. new ones should be made with the appropriate vinyl.

FLAME treat? What do you mean by that?

 

[SightLine]

FLAME treat? What do you mean by that?

Its called annealing..... annealing plastic temporarily changes the surface energy. When you flame the surface you want to take a torch or heat gun to the surface of the plastic (of course not long enough to melt it or make it rubbery and soft). It will change the properties of the surface of the plastic for 20 minutes or so and when done the vinyl should adhere properly. Best option would be to use a high tack vinyl but I have really only seen high tack in print vinyl.

How about wrapping the entire inside ceiling of some buses (we have done a few dozen of these)

 

[Phil Swanson]

Its called annealing..... annealing plastic temporarily changes the surface energy. When you flame the surface you want to take a torch or heat gun to the surface of the plastic (of course not long enough to melt it or make it rubbery and soft). It will change the properties of the surface of the plastic for 20 minutes or so and when done the vinyl should adhere properly. Best option would be to use a high tack vinyl but I have really only seen high tack in print vinyl.

How about wrapping the entire inside ceiling of some buses (we have done a few dozen of these)

Thanks for that info. Very useful! I herd of annealing metal but I didn't know it could be done to plastic.

 

[skyhigh]

i would try Convex for low energy plastics before I try the flame treatment.

 

[J Hill Designs]

Its called annealing..... annealing plastic temporarily changes the surface energy. When you flame the surface you want to take a torch or heat gun to the surface of the plastic (of course not long enough to melt it or make it rubbery and soft). It will change the properties of the surface of the plastic for 20 minutes or so and when done the vinyl should adhere properly. Best option would be to use a high tack vinyl but I have really only seen high tack in print vinyl.

How about wrapping the entire inside ceiling of some buses (we have done a few dozen of these)

I've always heard it called a 'corona treatment'

 

[Gino]

I've always heard it called a 'corona treatment'

That' what I thought, too.

 

[Dr. Kirill]

Convex

I am new to wrapping what is Convex?

 

[Billct2]

Convex is a vinyl for plastic like on Motocross bikes

 

[lgroth]

I've had pretty good luck with Oracal's Orajet 3951-HT on plastics too...

 

[Bretbyron]

In the body shop we used to use heat lamps or the heated spray booth and lots of alcohol or wax and grease remover on all of our PP and PPE bumpers and parts. Then you would still have to use an appropriate adhesion promoter.