Vinyl that lights black at night??

[signcrafters london]

In 20 years in the business I've never had a need for black translucent vinyl that lights black at night. In the early days if there was black copy on a pan face or something I'd use black trans, but then just started using high performance black because it was always on hand.

Now we're working on a internally-lit monument sign, routed aluminum faces with logo to be backlit. The logo is one blue letter and one black. I ordered trans black vinyl and it doesn't let any more light pass through than opaque black.

What product am I looking for?

 

[eahicks]

I've always been amused by the fact there is a 'translucent black' vinyl, as you have stated, it's no more translucent that regular black vinyl. I don't know how you could even have translucent black. If light shows through, it can't be black. If light did show through at all, it would be a dark grey.
By definition: Black is the darkest color, the result of the absence of or complete absorption of light. It is the opposite of white.

 

[signcrafters london]

We did some channel letter faces waaaay back that lighted black at night. That vinyl had holes in it like window perf best I remember, but that was in the 90s, so I have no idea where we got it.

 

[niksagkram]

We very rarely use black translucent, though on occasion we have, at the clients request. Most people understand, once you explain it to them, that black translucent will not give them black when lit, it's more of a grey or muddy brown. We have a display in the shop showing this. We have had a couple of clients request black trans, just to keep the consistency of the lighting effect across the whole face, rather than have the colours allowing light through and the black not.

 

[2B]

with the known difficulties of black translucent vinyl, is it possible to change the blue to an opaque and that was it is uniform looking at night and day

 

[MikePro]

wait... you're trying to illuminate BLACK?!?
sounds about as crazy as the fact there is a black option on transluscant vinyls in the first-place. or the fact that after 20yrs in the business I still refer to matte black vinyl as "trans.black" just because that's what it is in the Gerber/3M book.

what is the intended result?
-to read your black letter at night? add a white outline
-the letter to illuminate white at night? use day/night film in the form of black window-tint vinyl or perforated black vinyl.
-to have a completely-black letter illuminate at night? make a reverse-channel letter, painted black, backed with clear plastic, filled with LEDs and stand-off the wall for "halo-illumination"

 

[signcrafters london]

Here is the sign. Routed aluminum faces. Only the CA logo and the oval panel light.

We're too far along in the process to convert to reverse channels. I guess I could add a white outline around the black and blue. But I know I used some kind of duotone vinyl back in the day that was like perf and was black in the day and also lighted black (well, mostly black. More like dark gray. But that would be acceptable here.)

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

Oracal just came out with a new film "8870 Blockout film" It is black during the day and illuminates white, or white and illuminates black. Might be something to look at.
http://www.orafol.com/gp/europe/en/products/films-for-illuminated-graphics-product-details/items/oracal-8870-blockout-film

 

[J Hill Designs]

Here is the sign. Routed aluminum faces. Only the CA logo and the oval panel light.

We're too far along in the process to convert to reverse channels. I guess I could add a white outline around the black and blue. But I know I used some kind of duotone vinyl back in the day that was like perf and was black in the day and also lighted black (well, mostly black. More like dark gray. But that would be acceptable here.)

best bet would be to use black perf as you said, which will make the A light WHITE at night for readability.

 

[eahicks]

We did some channel letter faces waaaay back that lighted black at night. That vinyl had holes in it like window perf best I remember, but that was in the 90s, so I have no idea where we got it.

That's not even the same thing and not what he's talking about . That would be black daytime and white nighttime though.

 

[MikePro]

Here is the sign. Routed aluminum faces. Only the CA logo and the oval panel light.

We're too far along in the process to convert to reverse channels. I guess I could add a white outline around the black and blue. But I know I used some kind of duotone vinyl back in the day that was like perf and was black in the day and also lighted black (well, mostly black. More like dark gray. But that would be acceptable here.)

aside from simply adding a white outline, or black perf which will illuminate white at night, you can:
A) add push-thru plexi for the top logo & cover with vinyl. the returns of the letter will glow white and create an appealing illuminated, black, logo letter.
B) black diffuser film, or whatever the sign industry term for window-tint vinyl is (day/night film was always my guess, but I guess that apparently only applies to perforated vinyl?), or simply go to homedepot/menards/autosupplystore and pickup some black window tint. black during the day & will illuminate a smokey-grey color at night.
(its a polyester film, but longevity shouldn't be an issue since you're encasing it in routed aluminum. just make sure you bleed-out your application to reduce chance of edge-curl.

 

[signcrafters london]

Oracal just came out with a new film "8870 Blockout film" It is black during the day and illuminates white, or white and illuminates black. Might be something to look at.
http://www.orafol.com/gp/europe/en/products/films-for-illuminated-graphics-product-details/items/oracal-8870-blockout-film

This is what I'd like to do, but none of my Oracal distributors (Glantz, Advantage, Sabic) seem to know what it is, where to get it or price.

EDIT: Sabic found an Orofol sales rep that knew the product. But they only sell it in 4' x 50m at $800. So not cost effective for this project.

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

This is what I'd like to do, but none of my Oracal distributors (Glantz, Advantage, Sabic) seem to know what it is, where to get it or price.

EDIT: Sabic found an Orofol sales rep that knew the product. But they only sell it in 4' x 50m at $800. So not cost effective for this project.

Possibly try fellers? My fellers rep is the one who actually showed this to me.
Good luck

 

[signcrafters london]

Thanks ExecuPrintGS,
Fellers didn't have the Oracal but they will sell me 3M by the yard.

 

[Andy D]

Here are some pics of my 3M trans book incase you don't have one...

 

[ExecuPrintGS]

Thanks ExecuPrintGS,
Fellers didn't have the Oracal but they will sell me 3M by the yard.

haha i guess i shouldn't be surprised they would show me a product and not actually have it :ROFLMAO:

Glad you got it taken care of though.

 

[ericm]

This is what I'd like to do, but none of my Oracal distributors (Glantz, Advantage, Sabic) seem to know what it is, where to get it or price.

EDIT: Sabic found an Orofol sales rep that knew the product. But they only sell it in 4' x 50m at $800. So not cost effective for this project.

call Rick At Advantage (ext 1540)he knows exactly what the material is
we just used

3M Dual-Color Film 3635-210 Black 48" x 50 yards

3M night day vinyl on black Plex to get that same look

 

[player]

I would print black onto clear with my Roland. With the proper density you should be able to get what you need.

 

[Jester1167]

Black translucent isn't supposed to be translucent. It is supposed to block out the light and have a less splotchy tone than regular opaque vinyl. Black is the absence of light and there is no way to create a translucent black. Grey yes black no.

 

[spectrum maine]

if its a routed face- use 3/4 or 1" clear push thru letters, put white trans on back & black on front. it will halo light white- simple as a pimple