Vinyl won't stick to glass

[ams]

I'm equally concerned about somebody using intermediate grade vinyl on glass. Knowing what materials to use is another key to entering the world of professional signmaking.

It greatly depends on the brand, type and color of intermediate vinyl you use. If you use Oracal's 651 Silver or Gold, it won't last long, if you use standard colors it will. If you use Oracal's 751, that is one of their worst products so it will fail. If it's in the shade year round, it'll last, if it's in the sun most of the day it will fail quicker, if it's indoors, it usually doesn't matter what vinyl you use as long as it's compatible with glass, like you wouldn't use Oracal 631 on glass at all.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I agree. I've used 651 for 12+ years and on my earliest installs it doesn't seems to prematurely fail. After 7-10 years it looks like it could be replaced but I consider that a good lifetime? I think most customers think 7-10 years is acceptable or am I just way off?

 

[Johnny Best]

I just use 3M 7125 cast on windows but I did a movie set once where it was only going to be used for 1 day of shooting and installed white calendered vinyl because of the time they needed. The people who owned the building did not want it removed because of the movie and they kept it on for about 7 years or so until the building was sold. But it does curl up and come off in pieces if in direct sunlight for part of the day after a year or so, especially if small copy is involved.
If you get 7-10 years from 651 calendered you are lucky.

 

[vincesigns]

Windex and other glass cleaners have silicone as an ingredient to aid in the cleaning process by lubricating the surface to keep the towel used from sticking/binding to the glass. The silicone obviously keeps the vinyl from adhering. Pro tip - use IPA for cleaning glass but never on acrylic. Never use Windex on any surface that you want to apply graphics to

 

[3Dee]

My glass cleaning tip I have been using for years
$1 bottle of vinegar, pour half out, fill with water.
If grit on glass, drag razor blade backwards on wet surface.
Rinse off using a bottle of water with a tad of denatured alcohol added.
Squeaky clean and ready for vinyl.

 

[TimToad]

It greatly depends on the brand, type and color of intermediate vinyl you use. If you use Oracal's 651 Silver or Gold, it won't last long, if you use standard colors it will. If you use Oracal's 751, that is one of their worst products so it will fail. If it's in the shade year round, it'll last, if it's in the sun most of the day it will fail quicker, if it's indoors, it usually doesn't matter what vinyl you use as long as it's compatible with glass, like you wouldn't use Oracal 631 on glass at all.

We're located in a region that can have 50-60 degree swings per day with ranges like this morning's low of 22 to the very pleasant 76 degrees it is right now. We also will see highs in the summer between 100-110 with the occasional 112-114 mixed in there and back down to 55 the same night. I've found that we need a good cast vinyl because of its better ability to expand and contract.

 

[ams]

We're located in a region that can have 50-60 degree swings per day with ranges like this morning's low of 22 to the very pleasant 76 degrees it is right now. We also will see highs in the summer between 100-110 with the occasional 112-114 mixed in there and back down to 55 the same night. I've found that we need a good cast vinyl because of its better ability to expand and contract.

Well yes and no. If you wrap a window, you must use cast vinyl in that kind of weather, but really best to always use to wrap with. However if you do just some lettering like the hours, that isn't going to make a difference and you can use immediate.

 

[SignMan2u]

First off thanks for accepting me to the forum.

(Problem) Im trying to install a layered (3 color) vinyl graphic on a Barbershop Window. I've tried both wet and dry application and everytime I peel the transfer tape off the vinyl comes off with it. I can't get the first layer to stick at all. I tried with Clear Orical 651 transfer tape and self stick draw liner (suggested by someone else who does vinyl work). Even if I take a small portion of the vinyl and stick it on by hand it peels off with ease.

I'm using Orical 651 vinyl.

Cleaned window with Windex.

Temp outside was around 70°

Here is the real answer:
Many of the answers are giving half of the information.
First, do not ammonia based products to clean surfaces as it can dry prematurely crack the acrylic adhesives. Use 70% Isopropyl Alcohol (90%+ will leave a residue).
Second, All storefront glass is tempered safety glass (the procedure involves heating the glass up, and then cooling it down rapidly) and under pressure which emits a silica film to the surface adds a thin barrier between the glass and the pressure sensitive vinyl film. Only apply dry on tempered glass, never wet as it will take forever (it feels like forever) if you apply wet, even after cleaning. Use 70% Isopropyl Alcohol (Isopropyl Alcohol is water based and will remove wax and light silicone micron film). Use petroleum based solvents/cleaners for heavier grease and then clean the petroleum solvent residue off with Isopropyl Alcohol.
Once storefront glass is cleaned, you can use Calendered or Cast vinyls for a dry application. If you are intimidated by dry applications (especially large surfaces), well you have to pay you dues as we pros all have.

> NOTE: Glass windows and mirrors installed in homes are not tempered (with the exception of shower glass) and called pane glass which is not under pressure from heat tempering and allow vinyl films to be installed and stick from wet or dry applications very easily and quickly. This untempered residential glass type breaks in long shards to where tempered safety glass breaks into small pieces due to the oven tempering processes.​

Now you have the rest of the story!
Knowledge is power and good luck!

 

[priyanka2468]

I utilize Sprayway glass cleaner, Home Depot conveys it. At times when glass is new it has a marginally sleek film to it. In the event that that is the situation an extremely sharp edge cleaning in the wake of splashing on glass cleaner aides and afterward wipe it down with clean paper towels. I utilize Kimberly Clarke WypAll L40 towels that hold up superior to anything paper towels.

 

[letterman7]

Funny everyone is hitting on Windex and it's derivatives (ammonia based cleaners). I've never - never - had any problems in over 20 years of cleaning both glass and spot cleaning vehicles with Windex. Just lucky, I suppose..

 

[Gino]

I use Sprayway glass cleaner, Home Depot carries it. Sometimes when glass is new it has a slightly oily film to it. If that is the case a razor blade cleaning after spraying on glass cleaner helps and then wipe it down with clean paper towels. I use Kimberly Clarke WypAll L40 towels that hold up better than paper towels.
A lot of people like to use Rapid Tac to clean windows before applying vinyl, but that stuff is expensive and the Sprayway or alcohol method is cheaper. Windex has ammonia in it, and your wanting more of an alcohol based cleaner. Use to use cake Bonami years ago to clean windows to get everything off before applying size for leafing but that is hard to find anymore but the glass cleaner works quicker to clean.
After the first layer of vinyl has adhered then the next layers will stick easily and you can use the wet method.
But you should learn how to apply vinyl dry without bubbles on the first layer.

I utilize Sprayway glass cleaner, Home Depot conveys it. At times when glass is new it has a marginally sleek film to it. In the event that that is the situation an extremely sharp edge cleaning in the wake of splashing on glass cleaner aides and afterward wipe it down with clean paper towels. I utilize Kimberly Clarke WypAll L40 towels that hold up superior to anything paper towels.

How does this work ?? Repeating something almost verbatim 10 days later makes some kinda difference ??


Heck, I don't even think they have Home Depots over in India.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

How does this work ?? Repeating something almost verbatim 10 days later makes some kinda difference ??


Heck, I don't even think they have Home Depots over in India.

It reads as if it's gone through Google Translator from English to Hindi then back to English then reposted...

 

[Johnny Best]

It's an India collusion. There was an India company on here the other day pushing logo design and then we always have the harie krishna guy hacking all the posts on any given Sunday morning.
They all have the visit site as their homepage. Now I am hungry for curry chicken for lunch.

 

[SignMan2u]

Funny everyone is hitting on Windex and it's derivatives (ammonia based cleaners). I've never - never - had any problems in over 20 years of cleaning both glass and spot cleaning vehicles with Windex. Just lucky, I suppose..

Keep in mind Letterman7, you may be using vinyl with a solvent based acrylic adhesives and not a water based acrylic adhesives. Acrylic adhesives can either be water-based (this is also referred to as emulsion or dispersion) or solvent-based. Water-based are slower curing once exposed to oxygen (removed from the silicone liner) compared to solvent-based systems but generally solvent-based acrylic systems have better resistance to other solvents, chemicals and water. Solvent based is by far the best and should be preferred.

 

[letterman7]

Keep in mind Letterman7, you may be using vinyl with a solvent based acrylic adhesives and not a water based acrylic adhesives. Acrylic adhesives can either be water-based (this is also referred to as emulsion or dispersion) or solvent-based. Water-based are slower curing once exposed to oxygen (removed from the silicone liner) compared to solvent-based systems but generally solvent-based acrylic systems have better resistance to other solvents, chemicals and water. Solvent based is by far the best and should be preferred.

Or, I just clean my surfaces really well and make sure there is no "residue". As identified by another poster, they saw streaking on the surface and surmised that to be from the Windex. No, streaking occurs because the surface isn't clean. Now, true, I wouldn't use Windex or other ammonia based cleaners on plexiglas or lexan to clean them up, but for regular 'ol glass and to spot clean vehicles it's just fine. If the surface is truly clean and dry, it wouldn't matter what the adhesive base was to the vinyl.

 

[SignMan2u]

Or, I just clean my surfaces really well and make sure there is no "residue". As identified by another poster, they saw streaking on the surface and surmised that to be from the Windex. No, streaking occurs because the surface isn't clean. Now, true, I wouldn't use Windex or other ammonia based cleaners on plexiglas or lexan to clean them up, but for regular 'ol glass and to spot clean vehicles it's just fine. If the surface is truly clean and dry, it wouldn't matter what the adhesive base was to the vinyl.

Yep, clean and clean again.
P.S. I forgot to mention that when cleaning tempered glass, the rainbow colored streaking you see when cleaning, is part of the thin silica micron layer on the glass and will never go away. You just have to trust that the cleaning methods used are complete.