VUTEk H2000 or Oce Arizona 660 GT?

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Hello, friends!

Back with a couple more questions for folks who may run or have experience running the Oce Arizona 660 GT or the EFI VUTEk H2000 Pro. We were initially looking at the Oce Arizona 480 GT, but after some consideration we're going with either the 660 GT or the VUTEk H2000 Pro. I'm hoping that someone has some experience with either of these models and can give some idea of what we might be in store for. I'm already mostly sold on the Oce, but I have some reservations about the VUTEk.

We print on just about everything, but the majority of our printing is done on styrene, PETG, and acrylic.

My main concern with the VUTEk is that it's not a true flatbed. I'm not convinced the vacuum belt will be able to deal with some of the more robust materials we use on occasions (sheets of 3/4" acrylic, for instance) or on some of the oddly shaped materials. I'm also concerned about doing double sided prints. The boss has seen it in action and seemed impressed, but it all sounds a little too good to be true to me. In addition, we'll have to knock down some walls to make room for the VUTEk. It also uses Fiery, of which I am not a huge fan.

I'm also wondering how the roll to roll works on both printers, as that might also be something we're looking into.

We'll be running the printer about 18 hours a day (potentially up to 24 hours a day with the roll to roll option, should we go that route).

Thanks in advance!

 

[chafro]

You should look at the swissqprint. It is also a true flatbed.

I compered them both when I was making my reaserch and I went with the swissqprint for many reasons. 7 Months with the printer 24-7 printing zero issues. You should go demo it, they are at New York. It will be worth your time.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

You should look at the swissqprint. It is also a true flatbed.

I compered them both when I was making my reaserch and I went with the swissqprint for many reasons. 7 Months with the printer 24-7 printing zero issues. You should go demo it, they are at New York. It will be worth your time.

We had originally ruled out the swissQprint, but we're going to take a look at it. I know you had previously mentioned the price range was in the $300 to $700k range, but do you have any idea how much a comparable model to the previously mentioned printers would run? We're waiting to hear back from someone at swissQprint.

 

[chafro]

We had originally ruled out the swissQprint, but we're going to take a look at it. I know you had previously mentioned the price range was in the $300 to $700k range, but do you have any idea how much a comparable model to the previously mentioned printers would run? We're waiting to hear back from someone.

An Impala with cmyk should be around 300K US maybe less with the euro where it is. The speed you know is very relative; some give max speeds that aren’t sellable. But a CMYK impala should be printing 50% faster than a 660 GT at comparable quality. But where it gets interesting is when you put 2Xcmyk in the same impala it will double its speed giving you close to 3 times the speed to the 660 GT. The double CMYK should be under 390K with roll to roll and white. If you put it square feet per dollar there is a very clear winner. Let me know if you have any more questions.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

An Impala with cmyk should be around 300K US maybe less with the euro where it is. The speed you know is very relative; some give max speeds that aren’t sellable. But a CMYK impala should be printing 50% faster than a 660 GT at comparable quality. But where it gets interesting is when you put 2Xcmyk in the same impala it will double its speed giving you close to 3 times the speed to the 660 GT. The double CMYK should be under 390K with roll to roll and white. If you put it square feet per dollar there is a very clear winner. Let me know if you have any more questions.

We were actually looking at the Impala. If it works as advertised, it seems like it would be pretty much perfect for us. I'm really interested in the tandem and we do a lot of white printing, so those are two features that are really standout.

 

[chafro]

We have the tandem and white. you need to print many small size precut boards for tandem to be usefull. We have never used the tandem option. We do print alot of white, been working great for us on acrylic and petg. Have done some great glass prints with primer.

 

[chafro]

Not to hi-jack this thread but what are you using for primer on glass? I've only had a chance to do a few tests on our Oce with 256 ink but it bites pretty good.

Shows a lot of contamination from handling though so I'm looking to try out some primers to see if that helps.

Hi Pat, we been using the mimaki UV Primer (GM-1), not cheap, but works very good.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

We have the tandem and white. you need to print many small size precut boards for tandem to be usefull. We have never used the tandem option. We do print alot of white, been working great for us on acrylic and petg. Have done some great glass prints with primer.

Great. We do a lot of printing on PETG and acrylic. How's the adhesion of the ink?

We do print a lot of small, pre-cut faces which currently involves setting the table up, taping off areas, aligning each face individually... It's very tedious and it takes a long time to setup and break down, plus we're losing a lot of time loading and unloading. The tandem feature looks really appealing.

 

[chafro]

The alignment pins will be very helpfull for you, they work very good for that. Adhesion has been great in acrylic and PETG, zero issues on that matter, We have only needed primer with glass.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

How many alignment pins does the printer come with? Can you order extras?

Does the white ink have a tendency to yellow like other UV inks?

Sorry for all the questions. Just getting a little amped while waiting to hear back from the distributor.

 

[chafro]

Hello, I'm sure you can buy as many pins as you want, they come with 30 of two different ticknes.

The white ink is better than most UV whites i have seen but still could improve.

 

[gurvich]

We have both machines and I can say it`s better to have both of them, as Ariozna being true flatbed with combination with hybrid.

But in functional terms Oce Arizona ir more versatile.

One of the biggest disadvantage is that Canon (Oce) does not provide warranty for print heads!
They do provide warranty for all parts except print heads.

VUTEk is more faster then any Oce Arizona and EFI provides good service and there is program where you can get cheap print heads if you buy certain amount of ink. Also H2000 Pro supports new UltraDrop Technology which allows you to print with 7pL droplet.

Main advantage of Oce Arizona is ink consumption, we did tests to compare which machine uses less ink and Arizona is absolute winner.

Advantages of Oce Ariozna:
- Less ink is consumed;
- You can print on pre-cut formats;
- Better double-sided printing;
- You can print as much layers as you want;
- Better/faster RIP Software (Onyx - bundled);
- Easer printing of very thin materials (0,25mm).

Disadvantages of Oce Arizona:
- No warranty for print heads and they cost a lot. We changed 2 print heads in warranty year.
- The price of the ink is higher;
- Much slower then VUTEk and if you add Roll-To-Roll option then it`s even slower;
- In our region (Baltic States) service from Canon is bad;
- Pre-defined printing modes (Express, Quality, Production, FineArt);
- Printing together CMYK+WHITE only available in one mode Quality-Layered.
If you want to achieve better printing quality you should print CMYK as one layer and then print WHITE using this method slows down the printing process.

Advantages of H2000 Pro:
- Cheaper ink;
- EFI support program;
- Warranty on all parts (including print heads);
- New 7pL print heads;
- Faster print speed at them same quality;
- Better printing software on the machine itself.

Disadvantages of H2000 Pro:
- FieryFX is very functional RIP program, but RIPing process is very slow;
We run app on Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM, SSD Drive and sometimes if the file is big it takes 20min to RIP the file;
- Problem printing thin materials, you have to think of creative methods to being able to do that;
- VUTEk machine comsumes much more electric power;
- Higher price of the machine.

This review is my own opinion as I own both of them + third UV printed (Oce Arizona 360XT).

 

[inkjetguy]

Novus Imaging

Hello, friends!

Back with a couple more questions for folks who may run or have experience running the Oce Arizona 660 GT or the EFI VUTEk H2000 Pro. We were initially looking at the Oce Arizona 480 GT, but after some consideration we're going with either the 660 GT or the VUTEk H2000 Pro. I'm hoping that someone has some experience with either of these models and can give some idea of what we might be in store for. I'm already mostly sold on the Oce, but I have some reservations about the VUTEk.

We print on just about everything, but the majority of our printing is done on styrene, PETG, and acrylic.

My main concern with the VUTEk is that it's not a true flatbed. I'm not convinced the vacuum belt will be able to deal with some of the more robust materials we use on occasions (sheets of 3/4" acrylic, for instance) or on some of the oddly shaped materials. I'm also concerned about doing double sided prints. The boss has seen it in action and seemed impressed, but it all sounds a little too good to be true to me. In addition, we'll have to knock down some walls to make room for the VUTEk. It also uses Fiery, of which I am not a huge fan.

I'm also wondering how the roll to roll works on both printers, as that might also be something we're looking into.

We'll be running the printer about 18 hours a day (potentially up to 24 hours a day with the roll to roll option, should we go that route).

Thanks in advance!

Have you considered a Novus Synergia? Triangular belt drive, 3 year warranty, and made in America. PM me to hear about mine.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

We have both machines and I can say it`s better to have both of them, as Ariozna being true flatbed with combination with hybrid.

But in functional terms Oce Arizona ir more versatile.

One of the biggest disadvantage is that Canon (Oce) does not provide warranty for print heads!
They do provide warranty for all parts except print heads.

VUTEk is more faster then any Oce Arizona and EFI provides good service and there is program where you can get cheap print heads if you buy certain amount of ink. Also H2000 Pro supports new UltraDrop Technology which allows you to print with 7pL droplet.

Main advantage of Oce Arizona is ink consumption, we did tests to compare which machine uses less ink and Arizona is absolute winner.

Advantages of Oce Ariozna:
- Less ink is consumed;
- You can print on pre-cut formats;
- Better double-sided printing;
- You can print as much layers as you want;
- Better/faster RIP Software (Onyx - bundled);
- Easer printing of very thin materials (0,25mm).

Disadvantages of Oce Arizona:
- No warranty for print heads and they cost a lot. We changed 2 print heads in warranty year.
- The price of the ink is higher;
- Much slower then VUTEk and if you add Roll-To-Roll option then it`s even slower;
- In our region (Baltic States) service from Canon is bad;
- Pre-defined printing modes (Express, Quality, Production, FineArt);
- Printing together CMYK+WHITE only available in one mode Quality-Layered.
If you want to achieve better printing quality you should print CMYK as one layer and then print WHITE using this method slows down the printing process.

Advantages of H2000 Pro:
- Cheaper ink;
- EFI support program;
- Warranty on all parts (including print heads);
- New 7pL print heads;
- Faster print speed at them same quality;
- Better printing software on the machine itself.

Disadvantages of H2000 Pro:
- FieryFX is very functional RIP program, but RIPing process is very slow;
We run app on Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM, SSD Drive and sometimes if the file is big it takes 20min to RIP the file;
- Problem printing thin materials, you have to think of creative methods to being able to do that;
- VUTEk machine comsumes much more electric power;
- Higher price of the machine.

This review is my own opinion as I own both of them + third UV printed (Oce Arizona 360XT).

Thanks a TON. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I'd hug you if I could.

 

[gurvich]

Thanks a TON. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I'd hug you if I could

I remembered few other thing that are worth noting:
- VUTEk UV lamps ar cheaper;

- Arizona lamps by the book run 600h, but you can use them actually more then 1000h;

- VUTEk machines requires compressor which is not included with printer of course.
And everyone with air compressor knows that it`s very noisy. Arizona machines have built in air compressor.

- Oce Arizona is built on standard Windows platform (that's means if some part brakes you can replace it by yourself).
As official parts are quite expensive, but you can exchange them by regular parts from any PC shop.
Example: Ethernet adapter.


- If you buy Arizona ask your Oce dealer about the ink discount program.
If you buy certain amount of ink you can get discount for next order.
In our region you need to actually ask and Canon is not very eager to provide information about this program...

- I wrote before there is no print head warranty on Arizona machines.
For us it was big setback. Ask your Oce dealer about this
They will excuse this disadvantage by saying that Toshiba TEC print heads are "industrial".
But that's ******** to be honest, because simple head strike DiBond can kill your print head.

Avoid head strikes at any means. Arizona uses Toshiba TEC "industrial" print heads.
In my opinion they are not industrial. In a first year we changed to YELLOW print heads which are first in line in printer carriage.
We lost 8 nozzles and using all nozzle restoring methods did not worked out. We where luckily insured and insurance company covered this failure...

- On Arizona machine you have to manually enter material height.
Printers comes with tool for that on VUTEk it`s done automaticly.
If operator enters wrong height of material printer can crash print heads into material or compromise printing quality (if print head is set too high).

- About printing speeds:
- VUTEk speed that are shown in brochure are more accurate;
We use Grayscale modes they will give you best result and good speed.

- On Arizona sellable quality on materials like foamboard, DiBond, glass is Quality mode.
Or Fine Art mode. Everything what is bellow should be tested out first before.

Sorry for my English as I`am not native English speaker.
But I hope this helps.

 

[rmscoms]

Hi have you considered agfas range off machines, the jeti titan or new release jeti mira.
Both very fast machines built to handle constant workflow, 7pc droplet, cheap ink. Quality is superb and i feel better value than the vutek and oce series. They will handle all off the materials you need to print on. If you need anymore info on these machines feel free to ask.

 

[gurvich]

As we bought machine in march each day of operation brings new expierence.

We ran machine for 32h ours non-stop printing (only stopped to refill ink tanks) and zero issues.
It was very pleasant surprise.

Other good things:
- Cleaning of print heads is much faster then on Oce Arizona;
- Roll2Roll option is much functional then on Arizona machine;

If you have more questions PM me.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

We ended up going with the H2000.

We've had a few small issues, but overall it's been a pretty smooth transition. Thanks for all the insights!