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Need Help Wall Wraps

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Sign Pro Joe, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Sign Pro Joe

    Sign Pro Joe New Member

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    Dec 2, 2015
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    Our shop has been getting more requests for interior wall mural wraps lately. Most of the installations are on lightly textured to smooth painted drywall. We've been using orajet 3165gra with an oragaurd 210 matte laminate. Printing 46" to 52" wide vertical panels with .5" overlaps on a HP latex 360. The finished product looks great, but after a few days some of the wraps are curling at edges and losing adhesion in the centers. Is there a preferred vinyl that would work better? A higher tac vinyl with less removable/repositionable capabilities? We like the satin/matte finish, but is laminating necessary for interior walls? Phototex works well, but it is too transparent; seams color variations and any blemishes on the wall change the intensity of the print. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
     
  2. bigben

    bigben Very Active Member

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    We use general formulation 226 everyday. Sometime, we could use 20 rolls per month with our latex without any problem so far. No lamination at all. But if a customer request lamination, I use liquid.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Dan360

    Dan360 Member

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    Dec 23, 2014
    Ontario, Canada
    We do an adhesion test whenever possible. Our two main go-to vinyls are Avery 2611 and 3M IJ40. We will go to IJ35 or 180 if the first two don't pass the adhesion test.

    Lamination will vary depending on traffic/location, but the majority do get laminated. We haven't had any mural failures in 5-6 years doing it this way, only on smaller (24x24) logo decals in an arena.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Sign Pro Joe

    Sign Pro Joe New Member

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    Dec 2, 2015
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I will for sure look into this. What do you use for a profile?
     
  5. Wesley Powell

    Wesley Powell Account Rep

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    May 29, 2018
    Lima, OH, USA
    An adhesive test is definitely the best way to determine the proper vinyl but for smooth walls we normally stick with IJ40c with just the standard 3m laminate that they recommend but for more textured walls such as (cinder block/ brick) we have found that 480mC worked best for us!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. bigben

    bigben Very Active Member

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    I've created my own profile. I do so with all my materials.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    Frisco, TX
    +1 for IJ35
     
  8. Sign Pro Joe

    Sign Pro Joe New Member

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    Dec 2, 2015
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I am in the process of testing the Arlon DPF 8200 High Tack vinyl. Anyone have experience with it? The majority of the walls that we're doing are for long term use... being removable is not a necessity for me.
     
  9. crystalcoastgraphics

    crystalcoastgraphics Member

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    The GF 226 is a great photogex alternative. Is a very similar product, and is what we use for most of our wall wraps. The Arlon 8000 series is pretty aggressive in my opinion for wall wraps. Heaven forbid you have to pull it up and reposition. IJ 40 is ok, but is still vinyl. The GF 226 is a fabric essentially so it doesn’t have any shrinkage and can stay up with much less adhesion that vinyl would.
     
  10. Sign Pro Joe

    Sign Pro Joe New Member

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    Dec 2, 2015
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I thought the GF 226 was a 6 mil repositionable vinyl similar to a Catalina wall film, not a fabric like phototex? I have a sample of Rad Grafix vinyl which is a 6 mil PVC film from Grimco but the adhesion strength is just not enough for what I'm looking for.
     
  11. crystalcoastgraphics

    crystalcoastgraphics Member

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    Sorry, you are right. It’s GF 234 graphitex that is similar to phototex. Mixed up the numbers.
     
  12. wildside

    wildside Very Active Member

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    phototex has an opaque version that eliminates the transparency issue
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. neil_se

    neil_se Member

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    Qld, Australia
    We used Phototex for a number of years but have now switched to Avery 2611 which works great, laminated or not.
     
  14. Bly

    Bly Very Active Member

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    Avery 2611 but if the surface is too heavily textured we use 3M 480. A bit spendy but it conforms and doesn't come off.
     
  15. Sign Pro Joe

    Sign Pro Joe New Member

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    Dec 2, 2015
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I appreciate all of the feedback. From the testing I've done in the shop, we're leaning toward the Arlon 8200 high tac with a matte cast laminate for the more permanent wall graphics. For the short term graphics, we will be leaning toward the GF 226 (or similar product) with the occasional phototex. With doing multiple adhesion tests, I have found that the orajet 3165 ra that we've been using just doesn't have a good stick, and is not a product that should be used for any wall graphics.
     
  16. HulkSmash

    HulkSmash Major Contributor

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    The problem isn't the material - its most likely LOW VOC paint or too much texture. You need to do wall adhesion tests. 3m sells them. But most of the time 3-4 alcohol washes does the trick. We use ij 180 CV3 with Oracal 210 Lam.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Sign Pro Joe

    Sign Pro Joe New Member

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    Dec 2, 2015
    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I agree that paint is the issue, however, I'm finding that using the high tack vinyl eliminates any issue of adhesion. The wraps that I'm going to be doing will not be removed so there is no such thing as too stuck. I want them to be "pull off the paint" on there. For temporary graphics I will definitely be doing a more rigorous adhesion test and multiple cleaning steps before installation. Having a 40' wall graphic fail makes you reevaluate all parts of the process, including materials, in a real hurry.
     
  18. eahicks

    eahicks Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks

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    We have been using 226 as well, but have issues even with it falling down or not sticking well. Newer paints these days are hard to deal with using most anything.
     
  19. Reveal1

    Reveal1 Active Member

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    Nov 7, 2010
    Cape Girardeau, MO
    We do a lot of wall wraps - adhesion in this order for smooth walls Avery 2611, 3m40c, 3m 35c. Anything more, scuff and alcohol wash or reprime w/ Zinsser 123. We matte laminate most; besides durability makes install a breeze. Finding Avery 2611 just doesn't have the bite for some newer VOC paints so moving away from that. Agree you should always do adhesion test.
     
  20. Jb1983

    Jb1983 Member

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    Aug 4, 2018
    Vancouver island
    Painted drywall, ij40c with lustre overlam has been my go to. Have not had a failure yet, knock on wood....

    One thing to take in to strong consideration is the paint used on the wall. Oil based = no good. Also if the paint is too fresh = no good
     
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