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Wasting time with customers. Need advice.
- Thread starter klingsdesigns
- Start date
Gino
Premium Subscriber
This is a situation which can have many possible outcomes.... all dependent on how this person first addresses us.
For our company, most of the signs needing artwork/design or some kind of proof are local people, usually within a 25 or 35 mile radius of our shop. Again, this is first time customers, I'm speaking about. I will try to decipher as much of their information in the e-mail I can, but before giving out drawings or proofs, I'll give them a price range. If that suits them, I ask them if they're ready to send a deposit. If they say they need to see something.... kinda like they are testing to see if I can cut the mustard, I then tell them to come into the shop and we will walk through their needs and wants. If they are willing to take that time and get off the keyboard for their own sake, then I am willing to take the time to educate them when they get here.
As for their needing a vote of confidence that we can do their job, they will see the many signs and samples we have around the building in all stages to get a feel for our capabilities. They'll see the flatbed running or the inkjets going, they'll see someone working on signs and someone putting signs together, so they get a feel that we're a real production facility and not just another push-button operation. We truly know what we're doing. After I get the price down pat, if they insist, I will do some hand drawings/thumbnails and this alone usually 'WOWS' them. Not many people in sign shops can draw anymore, so this usually seals the deal. We again, will request the deposit and if they still balk, I'll just tell them to send me the signed, dated quote along with the required deposit when they see fit. Bid them good day and let them leave. This whole in-shop portion might last 15 minutes. It's up to you to control your time in your shop. Let them ramble on about nonsense and you'll waste 1/2 hour or more on things which have nothing to do with getting the job. Keep them focused on making the deal and take control of your own destiny and you'll stop wasting time on the internet.
Now, this all depends on if you have a place for them to come visit or not. If you don't have a shop or something professional looking, then it's a little harder, but that's just my opinion. A long time ago, I had clients coming to my house, which was my office so-to-speak and that was always wrong in my opinion. I always felt like I was entertaining and not selling. How many here go to the dentist in someone's dining room or get your groceries at Eddie's house ?? Nothing wrong with home-based quarters, but it still sometimes hampers your goal. Then you will still need to keep it as much internet as possible or meet at Starbucks over a cup of coffee. That can get quite tiring if you only meet 3 or 4 people daily. You're always on the go, so when do you get work done ?? We might have two people in a day come by..... we might have 20 in a day's tome come in. Lately, with the bad weather, not much foot traffic is taking place, but it's picked up in the last two or three days like crazy.
The last part of this equation is.... if you're chief, cook and bottle washer, then that too makes it harder as your time is precious not to mention completely chargeable or you become non-profit and that ain't a good thing. My part is.... all of the employees' times are valuable to me, but mine can be spent doing whatever from filling in on anything to stoopid installations to coming on here at s101. My time is my time.
For our company, most of the signs needing artwork/design or some kind of proof are local people, usually within a 25 or 35 mile radius of our shop. Again, this is first time customers, I'm speaking about. I will try to decipher as much of their information in the e-mail I can, but before giving out drawings or proofs, I'll give them a price range. If that suits them, I ask them if they're ready to send a deposit. If they say they need to see something.... kinda like they are testing to see if I can cut the mustard, I then tell them to come into the shop and we will walk through their needs and wants. If they are willing to take that time and get off the keyboard for their own sake, then I am willing to take the time to educate them when they get here.
As for their needing a vote of confidence that we can do their job, they will see the many signs and samples we have around the building in all stages to get a feel for our capabilities. They'll see the flatbed running or the inkjets going, they'll see someone working on signs and someone putting signs together, so they get a feel that we're a real production facility and not just another push-button operation. We truly know what we're doing. After I get the price down pat, if they insist, I will do some hand drawings/thumbnails and this alone usually 'WOWS' them. Not many people in sign shops can draw anymore, so this usually seals the deal. We again, will request the deposit and if they still balk, I'll just tell them to send me the signed, dated quote along with the required deposit when they see fit. Bid them good day and let them leave. This whole in-shop portion might last 15 minutes. It's up to you to control your time in your shop. Let them ramble on about nonsense and you'll waste 1/2 hour or more on things which have nothing to do with getting the job. Keep them focused on making the deal and take control of your own destiny and you'll stop wasting time on the internet.
Now, this all depends on if you have a place for them to come visit or not. If you don't have a shop or something professional looking, then it's a little harder, but that's just my opinion. A long time ago, I had clients coming to my house, which was my office so-to-speak and that was always wrong in my opinion. I always felt like I was entertaining and not selling. How many here go to the dentist in someone's dining room or get your groceries at Eddie's house ?? Nothing wrong with home-based quarters, but it still sometimes hampers your goal. Then you will still need to keep it as much internet as possible or meet at Starbucks over a cup of coffee. That can get quite tiring if you only meet 3 or 4 people daily. You're always on the go, so when do you get work done ?? We might have two people in a day come by..... we might have 20 in a day's tome come in. Lately, with the bad weather, not much foot traffic is taking place, but it's picked up in the last two or three days like crazy.
The last part of this equation is.... if you're chief, cook and bottle washer, then that too makes it harder as your time is precious not to mention completely chargeable or you become non-profit and that ain't a good thing. My part is.... all of the employees' times are valuable to me, but mine can be spent doing whatever from filling in on anything to stoopid installations to coming on here at s101. My time is my time.
SolitaryT
New Member
I go along with the crowd in that the first proof and two revisions are free. Each additional proof is $15. However, that being said, if someone comes in the door with (or if a project turns into) a design-intensive project, I make my disclaimer clear as soon as possible, usually the first thing I tell my customers, that a price, set by the designer based on certain criteria (i.e. time involved, complexity, maintenance - ongoing changes in the future, etc.) will be assessed. I quote them up front what it will cost to turn that grainy black and white business card into a full-color wrap or billboard. I've found that I've lost a couple of customers, but I've also gained the respect and loyalty of the customers I keep. It helps ensure quality business. If you can be up front in how much you're going to charge the pain in the *** customer, even if they leave and shop around, they'll come back because everyone else will be sick of them, dishonest, assessing hidden PIA fees and all that, when, the whole time, you were honest and dependable. Even the assholes appreciate that. My two cents.
visual800
Active Member
Jill our art is severely water marked and sent out as low res jpegs, with disclaimer on it it is our property. If they copy it they are going to have to work at it. If they copy it or copy layout i go after them. Rarely does this happen. I get sent art from other sign shops and absolutely refuse to copy if the customer demads i deny them service
2B
Active Member
the initial proof and one edit is what we use to do but after so many times of the edit being used for an entirely new design we changed.
the other reason for changing is just like the OP situation, the customer brings a file from another designer.
that is why EVERY projects gets the disclaimer
Pricing based on re-orders or provided print-ready artwork,
scaled to size and in the correct format.
File set up, manipulation, or troubleshooting will be subject
to a "Graphic Services" fee.
the other reason for changing is just like the OP situation, the customer brings a file from another designer.
that is why EVERY projects gets the disclaimer
Pricing based on re-orders or provided print-ready artwork,
scaled to size and in the correct format.
File set up, manipulation, or troubleshooting will be subject
to a "Graphic Services" fee.
JJGraphics
New Member
In God We Trust.
Everyone else pays first.
Everyone else pays first.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Around these here parts, that statement sonny, could get you ostracized..... or even banned for stirrin' up sh!t.
DesireeM
New Member
Every job is different. We sometimes make exceptions depending on the customer but we ALWAYS get approval of a quote before doing any design. Spec work devalues the design profession and reinforces the belief that since it isn't tangible it isn't worth anything.
Usually the process starts with a discussion with the customer of what their expectations are for design. I get their ideas and give my input. That usually doesn't take too long if you know what to ask. I tell them how long I estimate it would take me to complete the design. I let them know that "design time" includes correspondence as well and that they should make sure they are SURE about any changes they make because if I get past the estimated time I will stop the job to renegotiate the design time but that I will give them fair notice if we're getting close so they'll know they are running out of time.
Most of the time I go over the time I estimated by a little because I believe there should be a little bit of leeway(I don't design with a stopwatch) but if it's getting out of hand I stop work and call the customer. Since they've been forewarned they are understanding.
***If a customer is supplying design files I specify that they must be supplied in Print-ready format. Bleeds and crop marks etc....If it's a word file 8.5x11 for a 2ft x 10ft sign I explain to them that's NOT a design and they will still have to pay for me to lay out their "design" in proper format.
Usually the process starts with a discussion with the customer of what their expectations are for design. I get their ideas and give my input. That usually doesn't take too long if you know what to ask. I tell them how long I estimate it would take me to complete the design. I let them know that "design time" includes correspondence as well and that they should make sure they are SURE about any changes they make because if I get past the estimated time I will stop the job to renegotiate the design time but that I will give them fair notice if we're getting close so they'll know they are running out of time.
Most of the time I go over the time I estimated by a little because I believe there should be a little bit of leeway(I don't design with a stopwatch) but if it's getting out of hand I stop work and call the customer. Since they've been forewarned they are understanding.
***If a customer is supplying design files I specify that they must be supplied in Print-ready format. Bleeds and crop marks etc....If it's a word file 8.5x11 for a 2ft x 10ft sign I explain to them that's NOT a design and they will still have to pay for me to lay out their "design" in proper format.