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what about Mutoh??? vs Roland

Discussion in 'Mutoh' started by OKEE SIGNGUY, Aug 12, 2005.

  1. OKEE SIGNGUY

    OKEE SIGNGUY New Member

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    Jul 24, 2005
    i am considering this instead of a Versacam...

    because...
    Roland has informed us that we are "not allowed" to purchase the Versacam from our own supplier but instead were told that we "had to"
    purchase from the dealer that Roland dictates us to buy from.
    This is where the problem begins and apparently ends...

    Our supplier is a 45 minute drive from our shop and personaly delivers our supplies to our door every monday as they have for several years. They are convienient to our shop and have provided us with excellent service over the years.

    The dealer that Roland INSISTS that we purchace from is aprox a 3 hour drive from our shop. I have spoken with them concerning this purchase and they seem like nice folks however so does the car salesman when you are shopping for a new car, if you catch my drift.

    First of all, I've got to tell you, I do not feel comfortable being told that I MUST do anything, especialy begging a company to LET ME
    spend aprox $24K with them.
    Secondly, it makes no sence to me, whatsoever, that I purchase from a dealer that are complete strangers to me and are over 2 hours further
    away from us than the dealer that we like and have a track record with and confidence in and could obviously serve us better.

    So...what about the Mutoh???
    thanx for any help and/or advice...
     
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  2. iSign

    iSign Verboten

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    Kahului, Maui
  3. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    I wouldnt talk to Roland or anyother manufacturer directly. I'd go to the supplyer closest to me or one that i feel comfortable dealing with. They sell Roland? great... They sell Mutoh? great..

    Buy what you want where you want and tell anybody who disagrees with you to stick it!
     
  4. gtjet

    gtjet Active Member

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    Jun 3, 2005
    We had the same problem. Ended up with a dealer on the other side of the state and we had one close but across the state line. Bought an extented warranty and then Roland told us we would have to pay extra for milage and meals and lodging for the service guy. We worked it out without having to pay but it still upsets us as the other guy is closer, we like and work with him and he is way more timely. I understand wanting to protect a dealers territory but they should be exceptions. I say buy from who you want. It's not like the guy solicited you away from the other dealer.
     
  5. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    May 6, 2004
    Plain and simple, call Roland and tell them that if you cannot buy from the closer dealer that you are going to go with a Mutoh.

    Personally I would not go with a Mutoh though. The Roland is just a better setup, with better support. I found out recently that the dealers do not even support the Mutoh's, a contract company does and depending on your area can be slow. My dealer dropped Mutoh because the support company was taking 2-3 weeks on service calls. Customers were getting really upset and there was nothing they could do about it.
     
  6. ChiknNutz

    ChiknNutz Major Contributor

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    I bought from a dealer farther away from me because they have better service and reputation than the dealer closer to me. There isn't a whole lot of difference, about 3 hrs -vs- 5 hrs, but the dealer I went thru had a better overall package for me - cost excluded.
     
  7. iSign

    iSign Verboten

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    I bought a Mimaki & I think it is better then either machine being discussed... but mostly because of the vendor I choose to do business with. After 10 years I have seen the difference between dealing with substandard vendors. Advantage Sign Supply is an excellent company with a great sales team, competent tech support, very professional customer service, & the absolute best track record of several vendors I've used over the years for getting correct shipments to me in good shape & on time, consistently.

    I could have bought my equipment from a dealer in Hawaii, I went with Advantage in Michigan instead & I paid for travel expenses to bring in their technician. I will probably have to do that again someday... but I know what great service is worth & it's worth a lot more then a few plane tickets to Hawaii!
     
  8. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    May 6, 2004
    Doug,

    Mimaki makes great machines. Problem is that with the full solvent inks you need to ventilate the room. Working from home that was not an option... :)

    Truly all the machines from Mimaki, Roland & Mutoh are good machines. There are just a few things that seperate them.

    1. Roland dealers are paid by Roland to service there machines. Labor & parts.

    2. Mutoh dealers do not service there machines at all, a 3rd party company does. The 3rd party company does not have as much motivation as your dealer to get you up and running again.

    3. Mimaki dealers do service your machines, but they are only paid parts (No labor).

    As you can see its a big advantage to the dealers to sell the Rolands as they normally require less service calls and they actually get paid to service them. Full solvent machines inherently have more issues due to the strong solvents in the inks. The inks are just rougher on the machine itself. Its likely a full solvent machine will go through 2-3 sets of heads in the time a eco-solvent machine will go through 1 set.

    With the new eco-sol bulk inks avaible now, it is becoming less attractive to own a full solvent machine. The cost of this ink is around 10 cents a sq foot and the new ink has closed the gap in durability between eco and full solvent inks.

    There is an abundance of users and information on the web about these machines, but the majority of information is about Rolands. This is specifically because Roland has sold more machines in the last few years. The nice thing is these users on various forums are usually more than willing to help you if they can. This is a HUGE plus and can save you a lot of headaches, time and money. Chances are if you had the problem, someone else has as well.
     
  9. iSign

    iSign Verboten

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    Good info Barry, in all honesty my dealer does not sell Roland & that, coupled with the fact that I have had less then stellar experience with Roland in the past, had a lot to do with my purchase decision.

    After the pricebreaks I negotiated on the collection of equipement, I paid somewhere between 4 & 5K for my Air Duster. This unit filters out all solvents & without any ductwork, so I can relocate the equipment as my floor-plan changes to accomodate growth or reconfiguration without any further ventilation expenses.

    But, I made my choice against the Mutoh because of the track record of service issues encountered by my vendor. As for Rolands, the Versacamm was the only one I looked into & I was no a fan of print/cut being all in one machine... but again, going with my preferred vendor for the sake of long-term support was far & away the deciding factor.
     
  10. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    Doug,

    The decision you made was a good one for you. The Mimaki is a work horse and will serve you well.
     
  11. Zardoz_Canada

    Zardoz_Canada Member

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    Aug 29, 2005
    playing the devil's advocate

    I understand your fustration regarding not being able to deal with your local dealer for the printer that you want.

    I just wanted to ring in with my 2 cents.

    Many dealers do not want their equipment being sold by just anyone because the train their dealers to be able to repair their equipment and teach them how to properly set them up.

    It also protects their dealers so a certain amount of loyalty is build up between the manufacturer and the dealer. The dealer knows that they won't be competing with some guy selling the same thing out of his basement for dirt cheap prices.

    Now, I am not saying that Roland is the best company to deal with when it comes to sign equipment and I don't even know if the above reasons is why they won't allow you local dealer to sell their equipment. I hope that Roland is selective with their dealers because they expect a certain amount of 'quality of service' and back it by providing their dealers with as much training as possible on their equipment.

    Of course, don't take this as a blast against your local dealer either. Many small shops that can't meet the sales quotas required to keep a dealership are still very good at their job. I ran into a problem like this with Hewlett Packard. They will not allow me to sell their laserprinter line because I cannot meet their sales quotas......and I never will in the town of 5K I live in.

    Good luck in your purchase. I hope everything turns out well.

    Zardoz
     
  12. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    May 6, 2004
    Okee Signguy myself and Mastersignwizard all got on the phone with Roland and got the situation resolved. He was able to purchase the printer through his dealer, it was just a hassle getting Roland to agree to it.
     
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