What came first, the chicken or the egg........................ ??

[Gino]

Have a potential customer who bought a property about 4 months ago and is in the process of renovating the building. In the process, he took two 4' x 6' double sided electric signs down and threw them away. They were on two separate single poles with arms for hanging the signs. They have all the necessary guy wires and reinforcement cables. The poles are 6" OD, but no way to measure the walls. It's flange bolted to a cement circular cement base, about 24" in diameter. I'm pretty sure, the municipality here is going to want an engineered drawing, but my question is this...... what comes first ?? If I (or the owner) investigates to find out if the existing poles will support the new signs, will he hafta dig those foundations up to see how deep they are ?? Also, what if the codes changed and the signs are no longer grandfathered in ?? Next, if no one knows the foundation under there and he can't make a new foundation, is he screwed ?? I told him, we could've used everything as is, if he hadn't thrown them away. If they were still there, it would've appeared we just slid new faces in. This way, it's all new. Just a clusterfug of circumstances. Oh yeah, and this place is across the street from the municipal building..........

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Maybe the building department will have the old permits/plans if it was ever permitted?

 

[Billct2]

Yep, I have seen similar situations. I guess I'd ask the zeo what would they need for documents for replacing two existing signs with two of the same..
that they are gone may not hurt or may quash the whole thing.

 

[Gino]

I doubt it. These signs were really old. I think the area (overall township) has been divided up once or twice since these signs were first erected and have had different codes from today's standards. And like you said, back when this was originally done, not many people got permits for this kinda stuff, plus it's out in the country at a kinda busy intersection.

 

[Z SIGNS]

The old signs were not thrown away. They were taken down to be refurbished and put back up.

 

[Gino]

Hmmm....... I never thought of that and I have a devious mind.

 

[Gino]

I just called the guy with that suggestion.

Me: told him what you said.
Him: no, we got rid of them.
Me: no, listen to what I'm saying and told him again.
Him: but we don't have them.
Me: I know, but let's just pretend you do and they'll be forced to let us put them back up all newly fixed and repainted.
Him: How, we don't have them anymore.
Me: I know, I know, we're just gonna do this for the permit. We'll put absolutely all new ones back up.
Him: Oh, new ones, not the old ones.
Me: Okay.

 

[Johnny Best]

There was something that crawled out of the ocean and laid an egg.

 

[Gino]

Musta been a duck-billed platypus.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

There was something that crawled out of the ocean and laid an egg.

and now they are everywhere

 

[Billct2]

hopefully he understands the concept of 50% down 50% on install
or maybe he'd go for 150% with 25% rebated after completion

 

[Moze]

There are companies that can measure the slab thickness with radar, etc. For the wall thickness, you can just drill a small hole in the steel. Large sign companies do this all the time.

 

[Gino]

I don't know of a single company around here with radar with ground recognition frequencies. I also don't think if it's a large company or a small company, anyone will disturb these poles. Do you know how it's done and what instruments they use to accurately measure a small hole in a steel pole ?? I guess we could drill a nice sized hole and then weld a flap back over it.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

They have ultrasonic gauges to measure steel thickness. We use them to measure vac tank walls to determine how much of the original material has abraded off of them from use.

 

[Gino]

Can I pick that up at Home Depot ?? How much $$ ??

 

[rjssigns]

Can I pick that up at Home Depot ?? How much $$ ??

Here ya go: https://www.homedepot.com/p/REED-In...2b295bc17cd916cc92a23a19fe00742d&gclsrc=3p.ds

In your area if there is a race shop that builds roll cages they may have one. If so ask them to rent it.

 

[Gino]

And this would hold up in court for permitting ??

 

[rjssigns]

And this would hold up in court for permitting ??

Not sure but ultrasonic checking is required to get an NHRA cert for a roll cage. NHRA sanctioned tracks won't allow you to compete without a current cage cert.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I would think that either one would be acceptable to an inspector, it's not like they come out with a caliper and check anyone before they install. You could tell them 1/4" wall and put in 1/8" and they would likely never knows unless it failed and killed someone. We use an electronic mil gauge for paint and that is what the inspectors use at the end of a job.

Ultrasonic Thickness Gauge Industrial-882 / Steel Metal Thickness Gauge Meter – Range 0.039 to 8.85 inch| 2.4” HD Color LCD | Auto Calibration: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Ultrasonic Thickness Gauge Industrial-882 / Steel Metal Thickness Gauge Meter – Range 0.039 to 8.85 inch| 2.4” HD Color LCD | Auto Calibration: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Edited: the first thing I posted wouldn't do what you needed

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Not sure but ultrasonic checking is required to get an NHRA cert for a roll cage. NHRA sanctioned tracks won't allow you to compete without a current cage cert.

Do they check the bends? I think that is where you lose thickness in assemblies.