What gives w window graphics inside?

[SameDay Signs]

So long story short I live in tiffin ohio and our downtown is considered a mainstreet downtown foe ohio...whip pity doo.....so there sign codes are really strict but I've made sure to abide by all of them though I recently wanted to put perf in my 4 large windows to which there throwing a first about....keep in mind they've made multiple exceptions for many businesses to put up signs that exceed their rules and even let a new company put up perf on 3 complete windows because they were tiny....so I suggested I install perf inside the window on pet film and there sitting telling me I cannot....I guess I'm trying to find out what or how someone has authority to tell me on a private establishment and private property what I can and cannot put inside my window...keep in mind this is not flashing or scrolling yet a solid print for advertising purposes

So any law experts know how they can make me not put something in my shop? They say it mist be 3 foot off the window

 

[Billct2]

Contact these guys.... https://usscfoundation.org/

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

So long story short I live in tiffin ohio and our downtown is considered a mainstreet downtown foe ohio...whip pity doo.....so there sign codes are really strict but I've made sure to abide by all of them though I recently wanted to put perf in my 4 large windows to which there throwing a first about....keep in mind they've made multiple exceptions for many businesses to put up signs that exceed their rules and even let a new company put up perf on 3 complete windows because they were tiny....so I suggested I install perf inside the window on pet film and there sitting telling me I cannot....I guess I'm trying to find out what or how someone has authority to tell me on a private establishment and private property what I can and cannot put inside my window...keep in mind this is not flashing or scrolling yet a solid print for advertising purposes

So any law experts know how they can make me not put something in my shop? They say it mist be 3 foot off the window

It's common to have rules against signs in windows. Some don't allow any and some limit the percentage of coverage. In Dallas it's the same but I don't think it has to be three feet, just needs to be off the window. Lot of places just hang signs from the ceiling just inside the window. I know in Alliance over in Fort Worth the commercial property developer there won't allow any..it's like an HOA for businesses.

They can regulate anything... little one person can do to stop it.

 

[SameDay Signs]

I'm ok w rules and such but it bugs me the city I'm in has made prob 15 to 20 exceptions for other businesses but yet mine isnt allowed...I'm just treat all the same way kinds guy and it's all good

 

[Zendavor Signs]

Are you sure exceptions were made for the others? Much more likely that the others just did not get permits.

 

[SameDay Signs]

Are you sure exceptions were made for the others? Much more likely that the others just did not get permits.

No example the 1 window peef they classified as a mural....the other they said since there windows werent that large that's they'd allow it.....then many others have gotten ok for over allowed % of coverage....I've done my homework...I'm trying to find out what they can actually do if its inside my business...I mean you cannot just come into my shop and remove items am I wrong in this?

 

[netsol]

i will take you at your word, that they make exceptions constantly
if that is true, a concept called "sitting on your rights" comes into play
if the city has failed to enforce the restrictions for others, they have no right to enforce them with you.
that being said, the city has more & better lawyers than you do, and more money for a court battle.
my suggestion is a strategy to fight them, but you still have to fight.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

No example the 1 window peef they classified as a mural....the other they said since there windows werent that large that's they'd allow it.....then many others have gotten ok for over allowed % of coverage....I've done my homework...I'm trying to find out what they can actually do if its inside my business...I mean you cannot just come into my shop and remove items am I wrong in this?

I don't think they can remove those items, but they sure can fine you for violating the code. Then if it goes on and on they can get a judgement against the property and eventually seize it.... I mean, that is an EXTREME case

It's wrong if the ordnance isn't being fairly implemented, maybe you can ask for a variance?

 

[Johnny Best]

Just hang some mesh banners 3' back from windows from ceilings. Use to design things like this for banks where cities had these rules. Use colorful graphics and type so they stand out and look clean.

 

[TrustMoore_TN]

A few years ago, the city of Atlanta had a moratorium on any new window graphics, then restricted graphics to 6 sq ft. Down the road from my shop was a new development that had shops facing the main thoroughfare with full coverage window graphics. Many of the higher end areas of the city seemed to be exempt from the regulation. I advised my clients of the regulation and told them they had to assume the risk if we installed anything over 6 sq ft. It appeared that the difference was the places that could generate more tax revenue for the city.

 

[dypinc]

I'm ok w rules and such but it bugs me the city I'm in has made prob 15 to 20 exceptions for other businesses but yet mine isnt allowed...I'm just treat all the same way kinds guy and it's all good

You obviously haven't paid off the right people.

 

[rjssigns]

Just hang some mesh banners 3' back from windows from ceilings. Use to design things like this for banks where cities had these rules. Use colorful graphics and type so they stand out and look clean.

I like this. I was going to suggest a couple big screen TV's with scrolling content. Just make sure you place them in your "customer waiting area". The one where anybody on the sidewalk can see.

 

[KMC]

how about a mix of graphics on the windows and retractable banner stands on the inside?

 

[Chriswagner92]

So long story short I live in tiffin ohio and our downtown is considered a mainstreet downtown foe ohio...whip pity doo.....so there sign codes are really strict but I've made sure to abide by all of them though I recently wanted to put perf in my 4 large windows to which there throwing a first about....keep in mind they've made multiple exceptions for many businesses to put up signs that exceed their rules and even let a new company put up perf on 3 complete windows because they were tiny....so I suggested I install perf inside the window on pet film and there sitting telling me I cannot....I guess I'm trying to find out what or how someone has authority to tell me on a private establishment and private property what I can and cannot put inside my window...keep in mind this is not flashing or scrolling yet a solid print for advertising purposes

So any law experts know how they can make me not put something in my shop? They say it mist be 3 foot off the window

ask for for forgiveness, not permission

 

[Martin Denton]

What happened to the right to free speech in your constitution?

 

[2B]

It all depends on the town you are working within.

we have some town that states any graphics they can see through the window is governed by their Muni-Code
Others are only monitoring graphics on the EXTERIOR mounted surface

In the end, read and understand the codes, 99% of the time there are "grey areas" and depending on how you apply (the type of permit) for the graphics will determine the criteria to follow.

 

[bannertime]

What happened to the right to free speech in your constitution?

If a city told one group of they could have their graphics, but told the other they couldn't have theirs, then it'd be a possible violation of their First Amendment. If you could prove it. Which would be hard to do since the content isn't something one would try to suppress. First, the city isn't saying you can't post your message, they are saying, "you can't post it here." Second, these issues are more likely related to different enforcement employees in different areas, interpreting the code differently or just not understanding it at all.

When we asked our area's code enforcement why we couldn't do full coverage on our windows, she literally told me it was so people could see inside. The new downtown district came with a lot of retail shop regulations that they were trying to enforce in light industrial areas. Specifically: "Window signs should not obscure the visibility into a shop for the passerby. Every effort should be made to integrate window signs with store window displays." They couldn't understand the difference between the two districts and why people don't need to "shop" through my windows. I then mentioned I could just board up the windows and make it a wall to pay a $125 mural permit and put whatever I wanted and she said "yeah, I guess so." So I said why can't I just do that on my windows? They haven't stopped by in over a year or two now. Simply challenging some of these code enforcement people will get them to back off, but you need to know more about the code than they do. Their little two week course doesn't mean anything compared to years in the industry.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

If a city told one group of they could have their graphics, but told the other they couldn't have theirs, then it'd be a possible violation of their First Amendment. If you could prove it. Which would be hard to do since the content isn't something one would try to suppress. First, the city isn't saying you can't post your message, they are saying, "you can't post it here." Second, these issues are more likely related to different enforcement employees in different areas, interpreting the code differently or just not understanding it at all.

When we asked our area's code enforcement why we couldn't do full coverage on our windows, she literally told me it was so people could see inside. The new downtown district came with a lot of retail shop regulations that they were trying to enforce in light industrial areas. Specifically: "Window signs should not obscure the visibility into a shop for the passerby. Every effort should be made to integrate window signs with store window displays." They couldn't understand the difference between the two districts and why people don't need to "shop" through my windows. I then mentioned I could just board up the windows and make it a wall to pay a $125 mural permit and put whatever I wanted and she said "yeah, I guess so." So I said why can't I just do that on my windows? They haven't stopped by in over a year or two now. Simply challenging some of these code enforcement people will get them to back off, but you need to know more about the code than they do. Their little two week course doesn't mean anything compared to years in the industry.

Some can be very power hungry PITAs on a huge power trip.... thankfully the majority I deal with are understanding.

 

[FASTSIGNS]

Used to be back in the dark ages, that cities restricted window graphics for safety. Police were to be able to see though glass into properties. So therefore, regulations followed. Times of course have changed.

 

[MikePro]

we have argued this case successfully in the past, by explaining that 30/70, 40/60, etc perforated graphics is not "full coverage" and should be treated as such. you really can see-thru them if you're trying to look. however, the same argument has fallen on deaf ears in other townships as well. its hit or miss, but you're at the whim of whomever is enforcing these rules & has the power to grant variances.
Agreeable that fire code is there for a reason.... as emergency responders need to see-into the windows, hence the city's hard-line x% coverage stance, but most of those rules were written without consideration for the options available for "full coverage" window graphics. you can even cover the window with lines of thin-stroke copy, the really just takes up 10% of the actual area, but some townships will only consider the heightxwidth of the overall graphic for sq. footage rather than the sum of the individual sq.ft'ge of each individual letter... and a "closeout" vinyl graphic suddenly becomes 80% coverage just because you maxed it out on the window. its bonkers.

Arguing your case for this needs to go through the proper channels or they will just start fining the property owner anyways unless you get permission in writing.
We've gone as far as to cut/remove large segments of our perf.wraps to comply to these regulations, checkerboard or large bands, and fill some of the voids back-in with cut vinyl lettering to make it look "designed".