What is the cause of this shrinking Laminate?

[balstestrat]

If you have a problem with laminate sticking to latex printed areas then there's a problem with the laminate period.
I have a latex printer and do not have a single issue with lamination on my prints.

Well miss period, you are wrong.
It is a known "it can happen" case. It doesn't mean it automatically happens, only on some, I would say rare cases.
Usually you need a lot of colour like full black or dark blue, that goes to the edge of the shape. You apply that on a car and especially in cold climates there is a possibility it can delaminate.

That's why (not the only reason) in the new printers you can disable overcoat which help with the adhesion.

 

[truckgraphics]

Cast overlaminate costs about three times calendared. At one point it was twice...Costs have been skyrocketing very recently, but I suppose that's another story. Anyway, it's still cheaper to laminate with the right stuff than install a wrap and have to do it again.

By the way there are cast laminates that are cheaper, but you have to read the "label." For example Arlon 3170 is a cast overlaminate, but is recommended for less expensive calendared decals. If you read the information sheet, it seems that there is no UV protection. Believe me, I wish it was suitable for wraps, but again, I'm not willing to risk using inexpensive materials and doing the job twice.

....I'm interested in the Remington cast overlaminate that Mr. Studebaker just purchased. Says it has UV protection and the price is almost $150 less than we are currently paying for the Arlon we regularly use.

 

[mkmie]

Did you use the matching vinyl for the HP laminate?
We have used the HP Optimal Gloss Air GRP and HP Polymeric Overlaminate combo for years on box trucks and trailers with no problem.
I would love to use cast material all the time but I would lose half of my fleet customers due to price.

​

 

[Graphics2u]

As a follow up question? Does Oracal 210 Laminate do this? Should I switch?

Oracal 210 shrinks a lot when used outdoors and will discolor from heat/sun. You need a cast laminate for that type of job.

 

[Stacey K]

Out of curiosity am I able to 3mIJ35 vinyl with 3M 8518 laminate? I see some people use 2mil laminate on calendared vinyl.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Out of curiosity am I able to 3mIJ35 vinyl with 3M 8518 laminate? I see some people use 2mil laminate on calendared vinyl.

For sure. Arlon actually used to, maybe still does, sell a kit of calendared vinyl with 2mil cast lam for vehicle graphics that aren't a full wrap. The cast lam helps stabilize the vinyl.

 

[Stacey K]

For sure. Arlon actually used to, maybe still does, sell a kit of calendared vinyl with 2mil cast lam for vehicle graphics that aren't a full wrap. The cast lam helps stabilize the vinyl.

Great to know, thank you!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I'd jump up to IJ40 or get a roll of 8508 for the ij35 depending on if you were after a little more longevity or cheaper material.

 

[Boudica]

Rule of thumb: you can put cast laminate on calendared vinyl, but you cannot put calendared laminate on cast vinyl.

 

[citysignshop]

Since nobody has mentioned it, once you have better materials, the installation can still ruin the job. I see the screws had been removed, great idea...but then overtightened when re-installed. That wrinkle from the screw rotating is the first point of failure, regardless of the quality films. For the silver metallic that you applied last, you just have to alter the position of the lettering an inch, and AVOID going over the screws. If impossible, then envelop the screwhead completely, and release the air, heat and brush down firmly; never place an edge over a screw ( obviously you can see why!)

 

[Stacey K]

Since nobody has mentioned it, once you have better materials, the installation can still ruin the job. I see the screws had been removed, great idea...but then overtightened when re-installed. That wrinkle from the screw rotating is the first point of failure, regardless of the quality films. For the silver metallic that you applied last, you just have to alter the position of the lettering an inch, and AVOID going over the screws. If impossible, then envelop the screwhead completely, and release the air, heat and brush down firmly; never place an edge over a screw ( obviously you can see why!)

So, you put vinyl over screws - does that hold up decent? I've only gone over rivets. I usually paint the screws to match the vinyl and clear coat them then screw them back in. If they are silver I typically don't paint them unless the customer wants them painted. I always ask and add a painting charge.

 

[bingo]

As a follow up question? Does Oracal 210 Laminate do this? Should I switch?

In my experience in hot and very sunny climes 210 will shring about 1cm over approx 5 years

 

[Geneva Olson]

Try it out. I am a supporter, and had several issues when taping laminate on blank areas or printed areas, you will check a large difference (latex 300 and 500). Most of the time it doesn´t matter.

I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So, you put vinyl over screws - does that hold up decent? I've only gone over rivets. I usually paint the screws to match the vinyl and clear coat them then screw them back in. If they are silver I typically don't paint them unless the customer wants them painted. I always ask and add a painting charge.

I'm guessing here but it would depend on how big the screw head is. I always cut around the ones with the fat tall heads .

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I always pull those if they aren't impacted to hell and back. Otherwise it better be a premo vinyl. The TSA-4 or whatever stupid expensive tool from 3m is great for laying stuff like that flat with little to no effort, but all of the magic is in that foam roller, the actual assembly is nearly trash...

Sounds too complicated for me. The big exacto knife works great.

 

[okeesignguy]

Correct me if I am wrong but I have always been told not to mix calendared/cast vinyls and lams...
Lam cast with cast and cal with cal...????

 

[bob]

Re calendared laminate turning yellow. Both cast and calendared vinyl will turn yellow, and then a hideous brown, after a few years in the sun. In the last 10 years or so I haven't used vinyl laminate of any flavor. Not worth the trouble and certainly not worth the cost. I switched to using liquid laminate almost exclusively. Liquid laminate is acrylic, not vinyl, and has UV protection far superior to vinyl products. I have never had it yellow or crack after many years in the sun. My informal observations tell me that vinyl yellows, acrylic doesn't, for whatever reason. It's plenty tough but not as much as vinyl laminates. If you're doing something that has to stand up to being dragged through the briar patch, vinyl probably is the best choice. Other than that, not so much.

 

[MelloImagingTechnologies]

For the best wraps, always print on a cast set of film and lam and don’t use an HP to do it!

 

[Geneva Olson]

Try it out. I am a supporter, and had several issues when taping laminate on blank areas or printed areas, you will check a large difference (latex 300 and 500). Most of the time it doesn´t matter.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Could you please explain what you are saying?

 

[Stacey K]

Re calendared laminate turning yellow. Both cast and calendared vinyl will turn yellow, and then a hideous brown, after a few years in the sun. In the last 10 years or so I haven't used vinyl laminate of any flavor. Not worth the trouble and certainly not worth the cost. I switched to using liquid laminate almost exclusively. Liquid laminate is acrylic, not vinyl, and has UV protection far superior to vinyl products. I have never had it yellow or crack after many years in the sun. My informal observations tell me that vinyl yellows, acrylic doesn't, for whatever reason. It's plenty tough but not as much as vinyl laminates. If you're doing something that has to stand up to being dragged through the briar patch, vinyl probably is the best choice. Other than that, not so much.

I've used Frog Juice quite a bit in the past but haven't used it for quite a while. I only have a manual laminator and it's OK but maybe a liquid lam might be just as quick for certain things?

So, for example, let's say you print a 2'x4' sign that will be attached to the side of a building, you prefer to use liquid vs. vinyl? However, maybe for a mud-truck you would use vinyl as it's likely to have stones, mud, and perhaps a briar patch rubbing up on it.