What should I learn from this?

[Taryn]

I just did an install this morning, and I will be the first to say it does not look good. I am usually overcritical of my work, but it genuinely, straight-up, does not look good. I've attached pictures below if you all wouldn't mind looking at them and pointing out what went wrong, but I'll also give details on what was done, what was used, and the general timeline of this particular project. I've also added pictures of the line-up tape we used (same vinyl as graphics) because they don't normally discolor like this. I'm already of a mind to tell folks, if they're ordering vinyl before heir trucks are on the island, I'm not drafting their vinyl until I can see pictures of the truck at minimum.

Materials: Avery Dennison A6 Gloss Black (usually excellent on my installs), a truck that is exactly not the dimensions I was told it would be (48"x144" was what I was told)
Tools: Me (not particularly experienced in trucks with rivets), marine-tech coworker (excels at holding things very still), white squeegees, windex + paper to make sure the surface is clean.

Install Process: clean surface with Windex (goof-off if necessary) and wipe down. If need be, let the surface dry off. Then measure where the vinyl will be, tape it down, double check it's right. Then peel the backing off, very carefully lay it down, and press from center out. After that, peel the transfer tape up and repress harder if vinyl wants to come up.

Job events:
In May, client asked for the vinyl to be drafted. I got it drafted according to what he wanted, it got approved. Summer got busy so we did not get to do the install in June like we expected. Then August 1st, we get an install day set (8/12), and we arrive to find the truck had not been cleaned like I specified needed to happen in June. It was, in fact, covered in white powder that turned to mud(?) consistency when wet. Client took it back, promising to power wash. We also found out it was not at all the size he said he was buying.
Install day set for 8/19, he does not have it clean by then and cancels the afternoon before. Whatever.
Install set for today, we get out to the truck because we don't have warehouse space today and he wanted to park it outside where it very much could be stolen. It's not CLEAN clean, but it's windex-cleanable. We get the install done, and Murphy Lawe decided to help. So the attached images are how it turned out.

Thank you for your insight (humorous or otherwise)! (Also turns out the program only allows 5 pictures at a time so I'm gonna try to divy them up neatly between two posts)

 

[Taryn]

(pt 2 of the pictures)

 

[Solventinkjet]

I'm sure the other guys will have some good insights for you but my first thought is you're using a calendared vinyl on rivets which is always going to tent and look bad. A cast vinyl will do much better and last longer.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Yup, use a cast vinyl on any vehicle, especially a vehicle with rivets. If you don't have a ton of experience use a cast vinyl with air release.

 

[Taryn]

I'm sure the other guys will have some good insights for you but my first thought is you're using a calendared vinyl on rivets which is always going to tent and look bad. A cast vinyl will do much better and last longer.

Yup, use a cast vinyl on any vehicle, especially a vehicle with rivets. If you don't have a ton of experience use a cast vinyl with air release.

Unfortunately, the issue with that is I don't have space to keep cast vinyl in the shop. I do have a vinyl work table and space, but under that table is where the vinyl goes and if it piles any higher, I will not be able to get the vinyl out anymore. Part of the reason why we don't have cast already is we so rarely have people with rivets in their boxes ask us to put vinyl on the box where the rivets are. I promise this is not excuse making to feel good about doing bad jobs, since we are looking for space to expand into -- we've made offers on two buildings that would have worked great for us if the owners didn't also turn us down out of hand because they wanted their full asking amount right-out (we were only $100 below the asking price of one, and on the other somebody else made a $1000 higher offer than asking). We do have our eyes on a different space, and hopefully they'll sell to us after they figure out where they're moving to.
I would love to have space to actually properly store not just my vinyl rolls but also all of the completed projects sitting on my shirt + jacket totes. (Being able to display the stuff we can do would be neat too, but that's secondary at this point.) Once I do have the space though, I am absolutely adding cast to my selection because both I don't like doing a bad job with the wrong materials and it'd be cool to get enough experience with cast to consider wrapping (this past summer involved trying to find anybody that had an extremely specific blue that we could get a sample of for an out-of-town-sportsboater).

 

[Johnny Best]

Cast, always. Come on man!

 

[Gino]

You did many things wrong. Never, as in never, use windex. Wash with good soap and water, then an alcohol bath. The mud build up is oxidation and needs to be completely removed by washing and washing thoroughly. On vehicles, you use cast, not intermediate. Regardless of having enough room or not (which is a lame excuse), you use the materials called for or don't do it at all. The rest of your useless baggage has nothing to do with what all ya did wrong.

You don't seem to know what you're doing, but pretend to be. Sorry, but you're the kinda person who ruins it for others doing it correctly and charging properly.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Wash it better and I would never wet apply over rivets. I have had plenty of rivets look like that when I don't take my time, even with cast. My assumption is that you just squashed them down rather than use heat?
Now, you are worried about the install? What about that layout and font choice? No offense but they kind of complement each other.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Cast, always. Come on man!

Dude

 

[GAC05]

Along with all of the above the paint is dead on that box. Looking at the stand-off photos you can see the bare aluminum showing through. I think if you tried to remove the oxidation by buffing with a cutting compound it would fail and you'd just burn through to the metal before the paint was solid enough to lay the vinyl down on. Options for the owner would be new paint or cut that paint down as far as it would go and then do a full wrap of the side panels. You have to educate your customers - Good cast vinyl on bad paint = bad cast vinyl on bad paint. We get customers in all the time wanting to wrap the hood or trunk to cover up failing paint. I tell them no unless they want a temporary fix in order to sell the vehicle or impress their prom date.

 

[Taryn]

You did many things wrong. Never, as in never, use windex. Wash with good soap and water, then an alcohol bath. The mud build up is oxidation and needs to be completely removed by washing and washing thoroughly. On vehicles, you use cast, not intermediate. Regardless of having enough room or not (which is a lame excuse), you use the materials called for or don't do it at all. The rest of your useless baggage has nothing to do with what all ya did wrong.

You don't seem to know what you're doing, but pretend to be. Sorry, but you're the kinda person who ruins it for others doing it correctly and charging properly.

Thank you for the input. I do recognize and admit that I don't really know what I was doing, which is why I asked. I am serious when I say I don't have space, though. Our store is primarily marine electronics, and I primarily do boat names, numbers, and whatever decals they ask for, which is why we've been using A6 -- it works great for that. I also do heat transfer vinyl on shirts, hoodies, hats and bags. We don't get enough box truck requests to justify having vinyl on hand for it. It's 400 square feet of space, and I lose use of my table when we get inventory in, hence the mention of space.

Wash it better and I would never wet apply over rivets. I have had plenty of rivets look like that when I don't take my time, even with cast. My assumption is that you just squashed them down rather than use heat?
Now, you are worried about the install? What about that layout and font choice? No offense but they kind of complement each other.

I don't believe I did a wet apply over the rivets, but I did probably rush. I was using heat but likely not enough as well. I am worried about the install not looking good because of how I handled it, but unfortunately the font choice was not something I could change. That is what the customer wanted because that was how it was on his business card. The layout should have been better, but I should have also asked for pictures of the truck he was buying.

Along with all of the above the paint is dead on that box. Looking at the stand-off photos you can see the bare aluminum showing through. I think if you tried to remove the oxidation by buffing with a cutting compound it would fail and you'd just burn through to the metal before the paint was solid enough to lay the vinyl down on. Options for the owner would be new paint or cut that paint down as far as it would go and then do a full wrap of the side panels. You have to educate your customers - Good cast vinyl on bad paint = bad cast vinyl on bad paint. We get customers in all the time wanting to wrap the hood or trunk to cover up failing paint. I tell them no unless they want a temporary fix in order to sell the vehicle or impress their prom date.

I did bring that up with the truck owner, and he seemed to be perfectly fine with the paint job. I did talk about it with my coworker and he believes the paint was a cheap paint that got sun-baked, and that was likely where the powder came from. If you look really close at the corners where it's bare aluminum, you even get to see that it was unprepped aluminum and he was fine with that. Would you believe that the truck also came up with the dents you can see in the sunny picture?

Thank you guys for your input so far, I do really appreciate the second opinions.

 

[Gino]

Remember, reputations are built over a long period of time. Not buying the correct vinyl is your fault. Not prepping properly is your fault. Using wrong chemicals is your fault. Not applying vinyl with proper technique is your fault. Going way beyond your comfort zone is your fault.

I feel like you did most everything wrong. Like mentioned, the layout is really bad. You should've had enough gumption to tell him so.

Now, the reputation that takes long to build can crumble in 5 minutes with a job like this. You need to take a hard look and consider doing it over using all the right materials and learning a tough lesson.

 

[Boudica]

... just looked up your location. Looks a bit isolated, and not a lot of options. Keep working at it!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I have used calandared on box trucks. Not arguing the merits but it can work and last. If nothing else, get a rivet brush and watch some YouTube videos.
As far as the layout, it'd take you 5 mins to throw something together and offer it to the customer. Not everyone is willing to do that but I always do even if it costs me a little personal time. It usually pays off in the long run.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Like others have said...

- Use cast vinyl. That is the main issue why it looks bad over the rivets and seam. Calendared vinyl will not heat and conform like cast. You can get away with calendared on flat surfaces, but it does not work on rivets at all. No amount of heat would help that.
- Not having enough room as a decision to use the wrong material is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It takes up so little space. You can put a little roll anywhere... in your car, in your house... hell, I'm sure some people here stick them up their ass at night.
- You're loosing out on buying a place because of $100 or $1000? What real estate market do you live in?? People here are $100,000's over asking... or at least they were.
- Rivets... they take time and practice. Only cast works with rivets. It took me a lot of practice to work different types of rivets and the larger "buttons"
- Chalking paint. Trailers and box trucks don't have the same paint as a vehicle. It weathers over time and turns chalky.

**Edit. I see photos of your store. Yes, it's tiny.. but there 100 places you could put a tiny roll of vinyl... just because that little space under your plotter is full doesn't mean you can't get more vinyl.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Next time just propose a giant bumper sticker.
Giant bumper stickers hold up pretty good.
Make sure the background has a lot of bubbles and wrinkles in the design.
It's a refrigeration truck
I see frozen ice bubbles that almost look like rivets.

 

[garyroy]

Taryn, you got guts. You saw a job and attacked it. It didn't come out right but you gave it a solid try.
This is the college education your dad couldn't afford to give you, but now you know.
So go back to the customer and tell him that was the first draft.
Your now working on a better layout using a superior material, no cost to him, you'll absorb it. Watch some videos, ask more questions then
go back at it. If your first try was a 55%er you next one will be a 75%er. Eventually you'll be hangin' with the big dogs on Sign101.
This business is part science and part art. You're learning both at the same time. You also seem humble and quick to admit your mistakes.
That counts for something big. When you redo the truck give us some more pics and remember, cast, cast, cast. You got this.

 

[visual800]

this first thing I do is wash the truck with soft scrub...because the customer WILL NEVER do this I dont care how many times you tell them. Soft scrub removes the oxidation, after washing it gets wiped clean with alcohol....WINDEX SUCKS!........you then be ready for install of vinyl. I love oracal 751 I do not care for avery dennison vinyl, just my opinion

 

[netsol]

Thank you for the input. I do recognize and admit that I don't really know what I was doing, which is why I asked. I am serious when I say I don't have space, though. Our store is primarily marine electronics, and I primarily do boat names, numbers, and whatever decals they ask for, which is why we've been using A6 -- it works great for that. I also do heat transfer vinyl on shirts, hoodies, hats and bags. We don't get enough box truck requests to justify having vinyl on hand for it. It's 400 square feet of space, and I lose use of my table when we get inventory in, hence the mention of space.

I don't believe I did a wet apply over the rivets, but I did probably rush. I was using heat but likely not enough as well. I am worried about the install not looking good because of how I handled it, but unfortunately the font choice was not something I could change. That is what the customer wanted because that was how it was on his business card. The layout should have been better, but I should have also asked for pictures of the truck he was buying.

I did bring that up with the truck owner, and he seemed to be perfectly fine with the paint job. I did talk about it with my coworker and he believes the paint was a cheap paint that got sun-baked, and that was likely where the powder came from. If you look really close at the corners where it's bare aluminum, you even get to see that it was unprepped aluminum and he was fine with that. Would you believe that the truck also came up with the dents you can see in the sunny picture?

Thank you guys for your input so far, I do really appreciate the second opinions.

it doesn't matter if the truck owner is fine with it. your materials have nothing to stick to but the paint & the paint is not holding up

 

[Notarealsignguy]

it doesn't matter if the truck owner is fine with it. your materials have nothing to stick to but the paint & the paint is not holding up

If the customer is fine with it then I don't see a problem. I wouldn't redo it just for the sake of redoing it if they were fine with it. Just be honest and tell them why you aren't happy with your work and what may (or may not) happen. Offer to fix it if it fails or if they decide they don't like how it looks, even 6mos or a year down the road. As of now, it's on the truck, it serves it's purpose, customer is happy and they learned something. That's golden.