What to do with low ball competitors

[Locals Find!]

Are you sure the bids that came in lower than yours were using the same materials and methods?

I am asking because, I win a lot of projects from "Regular" sign shops by switching materials that will allow me to produce the same end result for less money. A good example of this is I won a bid on 15 4x4 site signs because, I used 10mil coroplast and had the artwork printed directly to the substrate. Whereas the other company was bidding out MDO with Digitally printed vinyl.

I subbed out my job and was able to come in much less than they could. They had more in labor and materials. I am sure they thought I lowballed them when I simply found a better solution and presented it to the client.

 

[Mikeifg]

are you sure the bids that came in lower than yours were using the same materials and methods?

I am asking because, i win a lot of projects from "regular" sign shops by switching materials that will allow me to produce the same end result for less money. A good example of this is i won a bid on 15 4x4 site signs because, i used 10mil coroplast and had the artwork printed directly to the substrate. Whereas the other company was bidding out mdo with digitally printed vinyl.

I subbed out my job and was able to come in much less than they could. They had more in labor and materials. I am sure they thought i lowballed them when i simply found a better solution and presented it to the client.

really?

 

[Locals Find!]

really?

Yeah, whats so hard to believe? These were site signs for vacant commercial lots. These signs weren't permanent.

Why use MDO for a temporary sign?? Its overkill. The client never had anyone else before me ever suggest something different. Saved him a few hundred dollars and he actually ordered other products from me with the savings.

 

[OldPaint]

Yeah, we know we were low on the 4x8's which is why we're surprised someone was lower.
HAHAHAHAHAHA DONTCHA LOVE IT.........when a "lowballer" bitches about someone "lowballin" them????????
like i said in an earlier post............all a print shop has against another print shop is PRICE.....how cheap can you do it???? as craig said:"Think of it how much you paid for your equipment, how much training you went through, The service you offer, and how much everything really cost. and then you work for less PROFIT so you can work more and longer hours??? dont make sense to me.

 

[Circleville Signs]

There has been a ton of good advice in this thread, but it all really boils down to this...

Due to the fact that anyone with reasonably good credit can afford to buy a printer and become a "Sign Shop", you have only a couple of choices.

1. Become so good at what you do that the difference between you and your competition is visibly noticeable, even down to the small yard sign jobs...

or

2. Start low-balling back and hope that you can do enough volume to justify flushing job-based profits down the toilet.

It's that simple. The sign business, outside of a few types of shop, has become commodity based. Unless what you can produce for a customer FAR EXCEEDS the value that someone else can, you will consistently lose jobs.

You also need to recognize another simple fact. You DO NOT want every job. I have a client profile. I look at it every day. It describes who my ideal client is. I also keep the business cards of my local competitors on my front counter.

When I'm talking to a client for the first time, and within about 5 minutes, I can I tell that they aren't even CLOSE to my ideal type of client, I grab a random competitors business card, hand it to them, and tell them that I think this shop would better fit their needs.

Any customer that want's 4'x8' MDO signs installed for less than $90/ea falls into the "Get the hell out of my shop" category.

 

[OldPaint]

I HAVE A CLIENT PROFILE............you got the money honey, i got your sign))))))))

 

[Mikeifg]

Yeah, whats so hard to believe? These were site signs for vacant commercial lots. These signs weren't permanent.

Why use MDO for a temporary sign?? Its overkill. The client never had anyone else before me ever suggest something different. Saved him a few hundred dollars and he actually ordered other products from me with the savings.

I get it. Good point.

 

[boxerbay]

$2200 for a van is not unheard of in miami florida.

 

[Marlene]

low ballers suck but they usually kill their own business before long as most do it by putting junk out there. years ago we had one that would ask to see the quote we would give and then would give a quote for less. one job we lost was for a "nice" wood sign. we bid it for redwood and lost the bid. about a year later we got a call from the customer who went with Mr. Low Baller to ask if we could re-finish her sign as it was a mess. I took a look at it and what Mr. Low Baller did was to use an interior core-door for the substrate. just hope your low baller is that stupid and you won't have to worry about them for long.

 

[signswi]

Compete on quality and customer service, not on price. Price to be market competitive but not to the point where you lose money. Chasing losses isn't a great idea.

Figure out what you do best and use it as your value proposition.

 

[Gino]

It's hard to compete on price alone, if you are not equipped properly.

It's harder to compete via the telephone or internet, because these people haven't a clue as to what they're getting... or paying for.

This is not an Addie lynching, but just changing the parameters when quoting and not giving the other shops a chance to bid the same way is kinda wrong. Had they known you wanted the lowest price by substituting product, they might've quoted on lyonite.... and gotten the job.

Most professional shops will give a three tier pricing structure. This is the safest way in which an end-user can determine what is best for his/her business or needs and then make an educated decision. I know if we'd do a job with 10mil Cor-X, just about all of our customers would drop us like a hot potato.

The other thing which was touched on.... if your over-head and hourly wage is identical to your competitors, but you're hand-painting it to his die-cutting.... who do you think will be less expensive ?? If you're die-cutting and your competitor is digitally printing it.... who do you think will be less expensive ?? If you're digitally printing and your competitor is flatbed printing...... who do you think will be less expensive ??

Sure, the machines cost money, but when you get to a certain point, you do depend on volume. Higher volume equates to lower prices on ink, substrate and many more orders if you are getting all of your work.

Screw what the competition is getting. That won't pay your bills or feed your family. If they do one truck for $2,200 and you do none, you need to re-think your strategy or move to a better climate... cause you're gonna be doing a lota fishin'. You need to compete within what your local market will bear. If you want $3,400 and no one is getting it, then your area has been ruined and you'll have to lower your expectations and prices. If you're busy, then it's a hit or miss kinda thing. Perhaps, you just need to talk the customers into coming into your shop and seeing how a real professional shop operates and just dazzle 'em with your talent.

 

[SignManiac]

Ooh I love it when I can get them into my shop! Perception is everything... Definitely puts things in perspective.

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

My kind of topic. Here I go.

If there was only a was to compare apples to oranges. A way to show what you really get with that cheaper wrap.

A website perhaps, that you could compare to you own. Maybe post that website in your area educating business owners what's really available for cheap.

A system if you will; that has proven itself to rid lowballers off of craigslist for good in several areas.

If...

So much for my wishful thinking.

 

[Dean Fowell]

Oh well I'm new around here no low baller, I treat everyone how I like to be treated I have quoted a big job and for a big sign shop and they turn around and say the other guy was cheaper All on my laser I talked to another sign shop that I do some stuff for and he said that was a good price, If I have someone say they are cheaper then me I say fine order me 10 as well because if they are doing next to nothing and everyone buys they will end up closing before too long. My main goal is to be honest hard working and put out quality that's just me and my wife would let me know,

Just my Two Cents

Go Rugby.....

 

[Dave Drane]

Grab your 2010 January/February signcraft Mag and turn to page 44 and read Dan Antonelli's article. I will retype the last paragraph.
The detriments of having "bad work" out there.
It's important to remember that the more "bad work" that leaves your shop, the more likely your shop will be known for that type of work. While it may appear harmless to collect the check and move on, in the long run this is probably a flawed strategy.
Obviously, given the economics of today, some shops are going to need to take what they can get. But be carefulabout garnering a reputation for that work. My wise friend Rich Dombey once said, "If you don't want to make any red Helvetica-on-white-corrugated-plastic signs, then don't make any red Helvetica-on-white-corrugated-plastic signs .

 

[Dan Antonelli]

Grab your 2010 January/February signcraft Mag and turn to page 44 and read Dan Antonelli's article. I will retype the last paragraph.
The detriments of having "bad work" out there.
It's important to remember that the more "bad work" that leaves your shop, the more likely your shop will be known for that type of work. While it may appear harmless to collect the check and move on, in the long run this is probably a flawed strategy.
Obviously, given the economics of today, some shops are going to need to take what they can get. But be carefulabout garnering a reputation for that work. My wise friend Rich Dombey once said, "If you don't want to make any red Helvetica-on-white-corrugated-plastic signs, then don't make any red Helvetica-on-white-corrugated-plastic signs .

Hah, Rich Dombey was a genius for coining that phrase. And it's so true. Lets put it another way: I have spent the last fifteen years making sure every job put out there is top shelf. Is it a coincidence that we've developed the reputation for putting out top shelf work? Nothing wrong with bread and butter its just a question of how you want to live and the work you want to do. If you're passionate about bread and butter, then push that work. If you wonder why you don't get to make top shelf work, maybe its because you don't put top shelf work out on the street.

The standard of trying to outdo the last job you just completed is rough; it's taxing, and it requires a lot of work, dedication and more importantly, passion. Most guys don't have it in them to put that much effort, and quite often, it's tough to not get burned out. I have a great team and I push them every day to not be complacent, to do better and better work. And they are glad for it, because it pushes them; and our clients are glad for it - because it gets them a better product.

 

[OldPaint]

QUALITY in a print............needs to be explained. shop 1, 2, &3 all have same printer, use the same material to print on.........no matter what you print on its only gona last 3-4 years or less. so only thing you got to get the work....IS HOW MUCH CHEAPER can #3 do the job that #1 quoted? you give em the same price as #1, you wont get the job.........like i said all printers got is PRICE...........and how cheap are you willing to go to keep the machine running??
now QUALITY of DESIGN........is a whole nuther thing. not many have the time and effort spent into establishing a HISTORY & A BODY of work that can show this. i seen the same thing happening when the vinyl cutter made design challenged people sign makers. again, all they have to get the work IS PRICE.........
as an old "brush", even when we would start new, WE DIDNT eviscerate the price structure like the advent of the printer has. we got PAID for our work............and we didnt have all the equipment/material cost. again i just dont get it, spend big bucks, to make less money then the guy flippin burgers at mikey d's/

 

[njshorts]

QUALITY in a print............needs to be explained. shop 1, 2, &3 all have same printer, use the same material to print on.........no matter what you print on its only gona last 3-4 years or less. so only thing you got to get the work....IS HOW MUCH CHEAPER can #3 do the job that #1 quoted? you give em the same price as #1, you wont get the job.........like i said all printers got is PRICE...........and how cheap are you willing to go to keep the machine running??
now QUALITY of DESIGN........is a whole nuther thing. not many have the time and effort spent into establishing a HISTORY & A BODY of work that can show this. i seen the same thing happening when the vinyl cutter made design challenged people sign makers. again, all they have to get the work IS PRICE.........
as an old "brush", even when we would start new, WE DIDNT eviscerate the price structure like the advent of the printer has. we got PAID for our work............and we didnt have all the equipment/material cost. again i just dont get it, spend big bucks, to make less money then the guy flippin burgers at mikey d's/

i agree, mostly... gotta compare apples to apples though. printer #1 may be using crappy vinyl and cheap un-matched laminate. printer #2 may have no attention to detail, despite a glaring error (mis-cut, colors not matching, errors/contamination in print)... there are still plenty of variables.

 

[Fatboy]

Here's mine ... originally posted here in 2005:



It's awfully hard to cut a man's throat when you broke bread with him yesterday. Take your competitor to lunch.

Best quote ever on here.Well done to Fred!

 

[skyhigh]

what i got from fred's story -

wait him out, he'll die someday - probably from working too hard for too little....

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Must be a couple hundred lowballer threads on here. And to think I wasn't even gonna look at this one.