Need Help What vinyl to use on auto glass

[Bobas Kalobas]

Hello,
I am looking for a higher quality printable vinyl that will stay on a pick-up truck back glass without using perforated vinyl. Some images that I use are small and the customer wants a printed image that will not peel in 2-3 years. I would like to offer the customer a longer lasting job, 4-5 years if possible. I have experimented with wrap vinyl because it is a good cast and found that won't stay on. Has anyone tried using Oracal 3551 on glass? And has it worked out for you? Thanks so much. Bob

 

[bob]

Avery 1105+a bunch of initials. Great stuff.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

3M 180C or 7725 cast.

 

[Bobas Kalobas]

I sure do appreciate it guys and will take your advice! Thanks so much!

 

[Jester1167]

Any brand of cast vinyl with a matching cast laminate will work. Avery and 3M tend to be most peoples first choices. If you use a cheap calendared vinyl the graphic will shrink leaving an unsightly dirt ring.

There are high performance version of calendared vinyl that try to balance price vs performance as well.

In my opinion the cost difference between cast vs. calendared is minimal when making small short run decals. You're better off using cast material and maximizing your work flow because the labor is your biggest cost factor.

In the end, customer expectations, durability, quantity and price point will guide your choices.

 

[Pixels Are Bad Mmmkay?]

Hello,
I am looking for a higher quality printable vinyl that will stay on a pick-up truck back glass without using perforated vinyl. Some images that I use are small and the customer wants a printed image that will not peel in 2-3 years. I would like to offer the customer a longer lasting job, 4-5 years if possible. I have experimented with wrap vinyl because it is a good cast and found that won't stay on. Has anyone tried using Oracal 3551 on glass? And has it worked out for you? Thanks so much. Bob

Out of curiosity, what vinyl and laminate combo were you using before and having failures with? I would think any cast wrap vinyl would last 4-5 years if the vehicle is cleaned regularly and garaged. If not garaged and in a Georgia climate, then perhaps 4-5 years is a lot to expect. That being said, we've always used 3M IJ180 (Signs 365) and Orajet 3951RA with 290 gloss laminate (in-house) and have seen good durability overall with both.

 

[Bobas Kalobas]

Thanks for your reply, great question Orajet 3951 with 290 lam was what I used on glass side windows of a police truck because they had no need to view out and it was horrible as it would not stick to glass. Awesome material for metal but not glass. I ended up sticking Oracal 951 on there and applying my printed Orajet 3951 with 290 lam on top of that. That was a couple years ago and I have not tried to put printed media on glass since. I use perforated...But,The project I have ahead of me involves a spider web logo with lots of thin pieces because each bit between the web is cut/weeded out. It is really cool looking. Thanks Bob

 

[Jester1167]

9 times out of 10, if cast won't stick, they used rain-x on the windows. Clean glass is an ideal substrate for vinyl and 3951 is more aggressive than most cast vinyl.

Did you install it wet?

 

[Dan360]

I remember seeing a video testing vehicle glass prep, I think on the wrap institute but I forget. Pretty much the best result was going over the glass with a torch to burn off all the chemicals that were causing the vinyl to barely stick. This was compared to commonly used chemicals such as iso.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

If cast isn't sticking, there's something wrong with the window. Had this happen last year. We used reflective vinyl on windows and within a month the client was back. The lettering was peeling right off. We stripped, cleaned with alcohol, hit with Rapid Prep and alcohol again and haven't had an issue since.

 

[Jb1983]

Ya glass is "high energy" so it must not have been cleaned properly before applying. You should have no issues with any of the higher end cast wrap vinyls at all.

 

[Jester1167]

If you install an air egress vinyl wet you will have these problems as well. All those channels get flooded with water and will take days to dry out.

If your using glass cleaner to clean the windows, make sure it doesn't have ammonia in it. Ammonia reacts with and can affect the adhesive.

If your using denatured alcohol instead of isopropyl alcohol you can have these problems as well. Denatured has petroleum distillates in it to make it undrinkable. Those additives can leave an oily residue behind.

 

[Bobas Kalobas]

Ya glass is "high energy" so it must not have been cleaned properly before applying. You should have no issues with any of the higher end cast wrap vinyls at all.

 

[Bobas Kalobas]

No, we cleaned it very thoroughly.

 

[SightLine]

On car windows we always clean it first with a solvent to be sure that there is no wax or Rain-X or other water repellant residues. Final step is clean with 99% iso alcohol and then polish with a clean rag.

Have had too many times where the same things happen..... vinyl peeling. Since we started the solvent (xylol) first followed by alcohol, no problem since.

 

[unclebun]

Windows, especially when new, are often coated with a silicone-like substance. There are also sprays which car wash and detail places use which have a similar substance in them. They make the window glossy and shiny and eliminate streaks. But you will never get vinyl to stick to them. The stuff gradually wears off, but generally solvents and a lot of elbow grease are required to get them off the glass.

Although the urban myth about ammonia has been repeated for decades, we have always used ammonia-containing sprays to clean signs, windows, and vehicles, and have never experienced adhesive failure. However there are varieties of Windex which contain the same kind of stuff that detail sprays do, which are claimed to eliminate streaking. That stuff will keep vinyl from sticking. You have to read the label marketing blurbs to see if it has it. We buy the generic blue stuff in refill jugs.

Though the isopropyl alcohol is often is enough to get the slick stuff off the window, I have had windows that required acetone to get them clean. You have to be careful where the acetone goes on a vehicle. Don't want to be replacing vinyl graphics or paint.

 

[rjssigns]

In rare cases you will get a window or a piece of glass where nothing will stick. I had this happen on a van. it's because of the way it was made. Too much silicone and other chemicals used when making the glass itself. Absolutely no way to get rid of it.

Learned this from my window tinting buddy. He has some good stories about tint not sticking which lead him to do the research.

 

[Jester1167]

In rare cases you will get a window or a piece of glass where nothing will stick. I had this happen on a van. it's because of the way it was made. Too much silicone and other chemicals used when making the glass itself. Absolutely no way to get rid of it.

Learned this from my window tinting buddy. He has some good stories about tint not sticking which lead him to do the research.

Auto glass is typically Rain-X. Most of the dive through car washes use it or some Turtle wax equivalent.

A lot of commercial building glass companies have a pre-wash that they run their windows through before they send them out to install. It makes them resist finger prints so they can install it and a quick wipe and they are gone. My guess it that the pre-wash contains some silicone...

 

[rjssigns]

Auto glass is typically Rain-X. Most of the dive through car washes use it or some Turtle wax equivalent.

A lot of commercial building glass companies have a pre-wash that they run their windows through before they send them out to install. It makes them resist finger prints so they can install it and a quick wipe and they are gone. My guess it that the pre-wash contains some silicone...

Hi Jester,

What Nick and I ran into was completely different than Rain-X or pre-wash. Absolutely nothing would clean the glass. Urethane reducer, enamel solvents, lacquer thinner, acetone and even aircraft stripper. Cleaned with Bar Keeper's friend too. We tried it all and the graphics still fell off. Even different materials from different manufacturers. Had the van in the shop three different times testing everything we had. Within 24 hours it all started to peel.

Just one of those weird things.

 

[Jester1167]

We used to have the same thing happen putting windshield banners on teens cars. Nothing will remove a fresh application of Rain-X. Got so bad we would start with a Rain-X speech when they first asked and then quit doing them all together.

Rain-X also sells and anti foggiing compound for the interior of your windows.

I am sure there are other things out there causing this as well.

You might try 3M Prep Solvent 70 if it happens again. It is supposed to remove wax and silicone, but I haven't had that scenario since I started using it.