What would you do...Embroidery or Laser Engraving

[Dcsigns]

Hi All,

We are looking to ad some new equipment and have in narrowed down to a laser engraver or embroidery machine.

We currently provide apperel services (screen printing, presses) as well as trophy and plaque services (sublimation) so both these machines are a fit to continue to expand on our services.

However, this year we will be limited to one purchase. As far as sales go it is an even split between the two services with similar profit margins. There are two primary competitors in our area already providing embroidery service and one "garage" laser outfit.

These two avenues combined account for 20 percent of our sales with a pretty even split. We are mostly a custom sign and graphics shop. I am sold on the engraver because of the crossover into signage work but the staff feels we need to hit the apperel market harder.

So If you had your choice what would you choose?

 

[2B]

Laser machine.

you will need multiple embroidery machines to have any decent turn around time

 

[WildWestDesigns]

That is a dilemma. Obviously though, I would say the embroidery market.

As far as needing more then one machine for any decent turnaround time, that's going to depend on the individual situation and what you are doing with any given project. Embroidery has a lot of different applications then just apparel as well. It just depends on how much you want to push it.

When I was working with my mom when I first started out, we had an open/close sign that was 100% embroidery. Only 18" wide mind, inside hanging in the door window, but there is a lot you can do with it. But, like I said, I am biased.

 

[trik]

Well it really depends on what size of each machine you plan to buy? Honestly unless you are going to get a multi-head embroidery machine I would go with the laser.

Good luck!

 

[Zambookajoe]

we took a shot at embroidery about 8-9 years ago, we did okay, it opened some doors, but after looking at the bottom line for those years, 3 years ago we finally closed it down and outsource everything and to be honest, it was the best move we ever made. In my opinion the margins are the same, with less headaches and no machine maintenance.

don't get me wrong theres money to make..... but for us its way better outsourcing

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Honestly unless you are going to get a multi-head embroidery machine I would go with the laser.

Actually, not necessarily the case. A multi-head can be detrimental if you aren't careful how you approach what you do with embroidery and how big of a multi-head you get.

Quality concerns and increase upkeep costs, beyond the obvious reasons for increased costs, are also associated with certain multi-heads as well for the same underlying reason I might add.


The one big negative thing though, is that there are a lot of people in the embroidery market that really don't need to be there and they bring it down. They will beat you on price and they will skimp on quality and sometimes the customers don't know quality or even care. I had one person this week was wanting some hat/shirt embroidery, showed the previous work that they had done after they complained about the price and said the previous person waived the setup cost. Well, they got what they paid for, because based on the picture there were 5 spots that I could obviously tell underlay was exposed. I didn't mention those issues to the person, because it was obvious they only cared about the price.

I don't know if that is a concern in the laser market or not, but that would be a big reason that I might go toward the laser over embroidery if I was just starting out now and outsource what I still got for embroidery.

 

[trik]

Actually, not necessarily the case. A multi-head can be detrimental if you aren't careful how you approach what you do with embroidery and how big of a multi-head you get.

Quality concerns and increase upkeep costs, beyond the obvious reasons for increased costs, are also associated with certain multi-heads as well for the same underlying reason I might add.


The one big negative thing though, is that there are a lot of people in the embroidery market that really don't need to be there and they bring it down. They will beat you on price and they will skimp on quality and sometimes the customers don't know quality or even care. I had one person this week was wanting some hat/shirt embroidery, showed the previous work that they had done after they complained about the price and said the previous person waived the setup cost. Well, they got what they paid for, because based on the picture there were 5 spots that I could obviously tell underlay was exposed. I didn't mention those issues to the person, because it was obvious they only cared about the price.

I don't know if that is a concern in the laser market or not, but that would be a big reason that I might go toward the laser over embroidery if I was just starting out now and outsource what I still got for embroidery.

Wild I totally agree with you, there is always that assumption people will do the maintenance and up keep with an investment of their equipment, but that is not always the case. If you buy used and get no training, I would say there is a strong chance then that issues will happen. We get people all the time shocked we won't stop production to run a name for them, or they bring what they think is a simple logo, that ends up with 20,000 stitches in it, like you said, you get what you pay for. We take a lot of pride in what leaves our shop, no matter the product. We are not perfect, but our repeat business is amazing, which tells me we are doing some things right ;-)

Our apparel business is 24 years old, we have seen quite a bit over the years. My only reference to a multi head was because it sounded like he was wanting to add another machine to his shop, and not knowing all the variables of his overhead, competition, etc. Running 4-8 pieces an hour with a single head, the profits may not cover the cost per hour your shop needs to run at. Its always hard to say without more info, I know if we are spending the money on equipment, we need to know it is going to pay for itself, and it justifies the need. Sometimes people buy because it is something they want to get into, and then are way in over their head. If signs is the majority, then maybe the laser, it will expend that department greatly, again depending on the laser. If the embroidery and you have to learn, it may not be what they have time for or more than they anticipated. So research and asking us in the industry is a start for him. It really boils down to what he wants in the future for his business, and are the costs going to justify the means.

 

[James Burke]

All assumptions aside, what do YOUR customers need or want the most? How do you know?


JB

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Wild I totally agree with you, there is always that assumption people will do the maintenance and up keep with an investment of their equipment, but that is not always the case. If you buy used and get no training, I would say there is a strong chance then that issues will happen.

It's actually worse then that in some aspects. Multi-head machines, typically 4 heads and larger driven by a step motor (especially if buying used) have another unique aspect to them. The further out the heads from the motor are, the more issues you might have with differences in the quality of the stitch out. I know one Tajima machine that is a 6 head and the closest 3 heads were perfect, the next head produced a useable result, but the last two were garbage. This was for hat embroidery when I saw it.

There are two ways to help mitigate that, either through digitizing (which always amazes me why people will shirk on that aspect of the process) or with increased upkeep especially on those heads.

We get people all the time shocked we won't stop production to run a name for them, or they bring what they think is a simple logo, that ends up with 20,000 stitches in it, like you said, you get what you pay for. We take a lot of pride in what leaves our shop, no matter the product. We are not perfect, but our repeat business is amazing, which tells me we are doing some things right ;-)

That's the other thing that I was getting out with efficiency on muti-heads. You actually have to start having minimums, especially if getting more then 2 or 3 heads on a machine. If you are really doing a small order, then you might be having some heads that are being shut off for a job. That's why it's not easy to squeeze in a small order that should be a quick in and out when a big order is running on the machine full tilt. In my mind, it's actually better to have a combination of single heads and multi-heads, but you have to be getting into the industry full force, which I don't think the OP is doing.

Now, no matter how well you have your machine(s) setup for maximum production, if that digitized file isn't setup for production (as much as it can be with what you are trying to do, sometimes an effect takes over maximum production value), you can end up spending as much as twice the amount of time (if not more) per item then if it was properly digitized.